Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]

- News Ticker

Donations - Please consider donating to The Ocarina Network to keep us afloat. More detail can be found in this topic. •
The Ocarina Network - Serving the ocarina community since April 27th 2008
Welcome to The Ocarina Network, a place for ocarina enthusiasts from all around the globe!

You're currently viewing The Ocarina Network as a guest.

If you join The Ocarina Network, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customising your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. On top of that we have a great number of music scores and backtracks for you to download.

Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.

Register at The Ocarina Network!

If you're already a member please log into your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Spam Prevention Measures
Topic Started: 22 Jul 2015, 11:54 AM (6,467 Views)
Stephen Bobchin
Member Avatar
Close the World, Open the Next

Hiya everyone! In an effort to improve your quality of life here on TON, we have taken some moderate measures to try and prevent spammers from making as many posts, because I know I already have enough Nikes and Kitchen sinks. In order to maintain some transparency, I'm making this post to try and explain what we have done, and to answer any questions you might have. To the established members, nothing has changed, and things will continue to work exactly as they were, you have just been moved out of the default member group into a second member group with the same privileges as the original. All validating members have been moved into the new default member group, and will be under the restrictions I am about to list.

The new member group will be restricted to only posting in topics created by established members. They cannot create new topics until they transition into the established member group. (Both groups are names Member, so it might be a bit confusing.) New members are also restricted from creating blogs or posting new blog posts, as it has come to our attention that spammers were using them to create spam posts. New members are also restricted from sending PMs until they have transitioned to the established member group. This is to prevent them from using the PM system to spam individual members, and while we haven't had reports of them using the PM system this way, it is a preemptive measure. In addition to the spam mitigation measures, we have also taken some steps to prevent sock puppetting and vote manipulation, which has been a historical issue with many of our contests. As such, new members are not able to vote in polls until they have become established members.

The transition is automatic at 5 posts, however, if you email us at Staff@TheOcarinaNetwork.com with your username and why you need to be moved to the established member group, we will gladly do so.

We welcome any comments, concerns, criticisms or witty banter about these changes, and want to hear from you as we made these changes to try and improve the overall experience for all of you.
P.S. For anyone wondering, we've banned over 500 spammers, and removed over 1000 spam topics, including one trying to copy the staff account.
Edited by Stephen Bobchin, 10 Aug 2015, 07:12 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZeroWolf
Member Avatar
Beginner
Hi Stephen!

While i am not in total agreement with those new rules, i understand why you do it.

5 posts isnt all that bad :)

Thank you for such transparency :)
Edited by ZeroWolf, 22 Jul 2015, 01:41 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Grimat
Member Avatar
Hi, I'm Mathew :)

ZeroWolf, all you would need to do is email the admins and they will give you rights.

I agree with the measures, only thing I (personally) would do is to call the new group "New Members" to avoid confusion, I also feel this would make it easier to quickly identify new members, and therefore make it easier to determine whether they are legitimate or spammers.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZeroWolf
Member Avatar
Beginner
Yes, Grimat. all things considered it isn't all that bad.

I misread a line, as i wars re-reading it, it made much more sense haha.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Feanolwë
Member Avatar
Spirit of Wisdom
Hi,
As the transation is automatic, is there no risk of a spammer creating five spam messages in other topics, before starting to create his own topics ? Adding a delay (1 day for exemple) between the fifth message and order validation would at least let us the time to see the spam messages (against which nothing can't be done but deletion), and have the user banned before he is able to spam in new topics.

Another option may be to make presentation mandatory, and to prevent any post except in the presentation topic. Once the new user is introduced, he would then have to wait for a manual validation in order to post. However, it may require more time validating users than simply banning spammers, and may refrain new users from registering, as some may simply not want to introduce themselves, and others may not want to have to wait to post - although in order to ease these problems, all established members (or at least many members) could be given the right to validate new members' presentation.

Anyways, thanks for your continued efforts against spammers.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Stephen Bobchin
Member Avatar
Close the World, Open the Next

Feanolwë
22 Jul 2015, 02:04 PM
Hi,
As the transation is automatic, is there no risk of a spammer creating five spam messages in other topics, before starting to create his own topics ? Adding a delay (1 day for exemple) between the fifth message and order validation would at least let us the time to see the spam messages (against which nothing can't be done but deletion), and have the user banned before he is able to spam in new topics.

Another option may be to make presentation mandatory, and to prevent any post except in the presentation topic. Once the new user is introduced, he would then have to wait for a manual validation in order to post. However, it may require more time validating users than simply banning spammers, and may refrain new users from registering, as some may simply not want to introduce themselves, and others may not want to have to wait to post - although in order to ease these problems, all established members (or at least many members) could be given the right to validate new members' presentation.

Anyways, thanks for your continued efforts against spammers.
There is a risk of that, however the majority of the bots that target our forums make new topics, and not posts (we do get a few posts, but not many)

We tried to balance new users with mitigating spammers, and feel this is an adequete compromise, as we didn't want to prevent new users from contributing. We are also limited in what we can do in regards to fighting spammers, and this is pretty much the optimal choice. Also, because they are in the default member group, we can't change the name (although we could change the 2nd member group to "Established Members")

@ZeroWolf, what in particular do you not agree with?
Edited by Stephen Bobchin, 22 Jul 2015, 02:45 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZeroWolf
Member Avatar
Beginner
Stephen,

I just think it might scare away new users, but at the same time i understand it's alot of work for you guys.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gyzyn
Member Avatar
Triple Ocarinist x 4
Actually this is a "system" I've seen implemented on many other forums I've been to. I think it's a great idea.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Stephen Bobchin
Member Avatar
Close the World, Open the Next

ZeroWolf
22 Jul 2015, 03:09 PM
Stephen,

I just think it might scare away new users, but at the same time i understand it's alot of work for you guys.
The new users are still able to post in any topic they normally would be able to. The only difference is, they need to make a few posts before they can start a new "what ocarina should I buy" post.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
carbon


Pretty much standard operating procedure in communities. Great changes!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TheMusiciansApprentice
Pendant Ocarinist x 3
I think this is a really good idea. ^ ^ Thank you for giving us a run-down! C:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mark Chan
Member Avatar


I think it's a great change.

I've gotten PM's from people with 0 posts, and it's quite alarming especially when they want to buy an ocarina that I'm selling. I'd rather sell to established members. Selling to someone with zero posts is like selling to someone on eBay with zero feedback.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Amerred
Member Avatar
Can't play pendants
Stephen Bobchin
22 Jul 2015, 03:21 PM
The new users are still able to post in any topic they normally would be able to. The only difference is, they need to make a few posts before they can start a new "what ocarina should I buy" post.
I was about to mention, what topics would they even NEED to post so desperately that they can't make 5 normal posts first (which, incidentally, is nothing considering the traffic on this forum)? But there's your answer, I guess. Who knows, maybe not being allowed to make a topic for that sort of question right off the bat might inspire more people to use the search function(s) - even if the one (you know, the one to the right) is kind of... eh... they're at least bound to find something!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jack Campin
Member Avatar
Opener of Catfood Tins

Looks like a good balance between effectiveness and intrusiveness. I can't think of a better option.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hylian_shieldmaiden
Member Avatar
Can't settle on an avatar pic.
Sounds good to me. Perhaps the second members group could be called Full Members, or Lvl. 2 Members. Or something like that.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dries
On sick leave
I've seen this with many other forums. Not a problem.

Dries
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Reiko Souma
Member Avatar
Social Butterfly Ocarinist
Stephen Bobchin
22 Jul 2015, 11:54 AM
Hiya everyone! In an effort to improve your quality of life here on TON, we have taken some moderate measures to try and prevent spammers from making as many posts, because I know I already have enough Nikes and Kitchen sinks. In order to maintain some transparency, I'm making this post to try and explain what we have done, and to answer any questions you might have. To the established members, nothing has changed, and things will continue to work exactly as they were, you have just been moved out of the default member group into a second member group with the same privileges as the original. All validating members have been moved into the new default member group, and will be under the restrictions I am about to list.

The new member group will be restricted to only posting in topics created by established members. They cannot create new topics until they transition into the established member group. (Both groups are names Member, so it might be a bit confusing.) New members are also restricted from creating blogs or posting new blog posts, as it has come to our attention that spammers were using them to create spam posts. New members are also restricted from sending PMs until they have transitioned to the established member group. This is to prevent them from using the PM system to spam individual members, and while we haven't had reports of them using the PM system this way, it is a preemptive measure. In addition to the spam mitigation measures, we have also taken some steps to prevent sock puppetting and vote manipulation, which has been a historical issue with many of our contests. As such, new members are not able to vote in polls until they have become established members.

The transition is automatic at 5 posts, however, if you email us at Staff@tTheOcarinaNetwork.com with your username and why you need to be moved to the established member group, we will gladly do so.

We welcome any comments, concerns, criticisms or witty banter about these changes, and want to hear from you as we made these changes to try and improve the overall experience for all of you.
P.S. For anyone wondering, we've banned over 500 spammers, and removed over 1000 spam topics, including one trying to copy the staff account.
No problem at all, only...I can't update my signature to remove the image link that I was told is stretching the page. Why is that???
Edited by Reiko Souma, 23 Jul 2015, 03:53 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Wollemi Pine
Member Avatar
Triple-Double Ocarinist

Stephen,

Can you move me to the established user group (kidding!).

Thanks for keeping us informed. It makes perfect sense why you set it up this way. Thanks for your efforts in keeping the spam under control.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Bayou Mama
Member Avatar
Conflict resolution is only a half step away!
Thank you, Stephen. We all appreciate your efforts. 👍
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Stephen Bobchin
Member Avatar
Close the World, Open the Next

Reiko Souma
23 Jul 2015, 03:49 AM
Stephen Bobchin
22 Jul 2015, 11:54 AM
Hiya everyone! In an effort to improve your quality of life here on TON, we have taken some moderate measures to try and prevent spammers from making as many posts, because I know I already have enough Nikes and Kitchen sinks. In order to maintain some transparency, I'm making this post to try and explain what we have done, and to answer any questions you might have. To the established members, nothing has changed, and things will continue to work exactly as they were, you have just been moved out of the default member group into a second member group with the same privileges as the original. All validating members have been moved into the new default member group, and will be under the restrictions I am about to list.

The new member group will be restricted to only posting in topics created by established members. They cannot create new topics until they transition into the established member group. (Both groups are names Member, so it might be a bit confusing.) New members are also restricted from creating blogs or posting new blog posts, as it has come to our attention that spammers were using them to create spam posts. New members are also restricted from sending PMs until they have transitioned to the established member group. This is to prevent them from using the PM system to spam individual members, and while we haven't had reports of them using the PM system this way, it is a preemptive measure. In addition to the spam mitigation measures, we have also taken some steps to prevent sock puppetting and vote manipulation, which has been a historical issue with many of our contests. As such, new members are not able to vote in polls until they have become established members.

The transition is automatic at 5 posts, however, if you email us at Staff@tTheOcarinaNetwork.com with your username and why you need to be moved to the established member group, we will gladly do so.

We welcome any comments, concerns, criticisms or witty banter about these changes, and want to hear from you as we made these changes to try and improve the overall experience for all of you.
P.S. For anyone wondering, we've banned over 500 spammers, and removed over 1000 spam topics, including one trying to copy the staff account.
No problem at all, only...I can't update my signature to remove the image link that I was told is stretching the page. Why is that???
Fixed
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Reiko Souma
Member Avatar
Social Butterfly Ocarinist
Stephen Bobchin
23 Jul 2015, 08:32 AM
Fixed
Thanks. Image in signature shouldn't be stretching the page anymore...my apologies to anyone who was affected by this.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stealthheartocarina_z
Member Avatar
Transverse Ocarinist
I also understand why you do it, and I partially agree.
In the Off-Topic section, posts do not count towards user count. What if there were a topic where new members could ask questions about the ocarina, because sometimes the new members have just picked up the ocarina and have nagging questions.
Edited by stealthheartocarina_z, 17 Aug 2015, 02:42 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
foxinthestars
Member Avatar
Pendant Ocarinist x 3
Can you sticky this topic and add this info to the FAQ?

As a new member it took me a while to find this information and understand why I was getting error messages. I'm fine with the measures you're taking, it just would have helped me if it was more visible.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
CFWhitman
Initiate
It probably would be good to add a "Why can't I make a new topic?" question to the FAQ (and the stickly might not be a bad idea either). I knew about the anti-spam measures before I signed up, but it would be easy to miss.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Amerred
Member Avatar
Can't play pendants
Yeah, I've been seeing a few new people around who've been confused by that... I agree that it would be a good idea to maybe just put something somewhere (ie, in a constant, obvious place, not just in this thread) about the difference between "members" (those with less than 5 posts) and "members".



Then again... Is it really that big of an issue when it's only five posts as the cap? Do a lot of new people even notice? I mean, what were you guys wanting to post before you got 5 posts, to get an idea? (Though it would probably make some sense to add it to the error message at least... I imagine that that would confuse a lot of people)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
foxinthestars
Member Avatar
Pendant Ocarinist x 3
I wanted to post a question (the one about what condensation sounds like). And I, uh, don't tend to be talkative in new environments? So yeah, I noticed.

Asking for permission was no big deal, tho, once I knew.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Amerred
Member Avatar
Can't play pendants
Either way, I agree that it should be mentioned somewhere a bit more noticeable. And so now we wait until a mod/admin sees this. I'm not sure what the error page looks like, but if it's a pop-up text box then that could be a good place to put it (or the FAQ or as a sticky; really any of these suggestions are valid).

edit: Huh. Didn't realize that just typing "F A Q" automatically created a link to the FAQ... Just for the sake of knowing, Active Topics

edit 2: Aw, no such luck

edit 3: And now that I get rid of the spaces between F A and Q in the first edit, no link appears. What is this witchcraft?
Edited by Amerred, 7 Oct 2015, 02:37 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
CFWhitman
Initiate
It probably has one of two explanations:
1. The parser only tries to find possible links when you first post your comment and not when you edit it.
2. The parser only catches words to convert to links as they are first typed from preceding space to ending space and not when you go back and delete spaces or characters between the letters to create the word later. (This doesn't seem as likely in a Web forum, but if the parser were Javascript based, it seems like it would be possible.)
Edited by CFWhitman, 7 Oct 2015, 08:04 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Amerred
Member Avatar
Can't play pendants
Hmm... I kind of want to keep testing it Active Topics but I don't want to make a whole new post FAQ though. Well, I might as well try it BBCode if I'm already responding.

edit: Huh. Link to FAQ but not the others, despite the fact that active topics came first this time...
Edited by Amerred, 8 Oct 2015, 02:16 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
budoc
Inline Ocarinist
This is good to know as I was confused as to why I was not able to create a new topic in Q&A. Thank you and thanks for trying to keep spamming to a minimum.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · FrontPage News and Official Announcements · Next Topic »
Add Reply



Find us on TwitterFacebook | Read the FAQ