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Quartz Ocarina
Topic Started: 5 Oct 2011, 05:45 AM (1,805 Views)
fluffypinktank
Ocarina Maker (In The Rough)
So I had this idea a while back *and just noticed Kael had the same Idea* to make an Ocarina out of glass... seeing as that's no longer an original idea that I can call "mine" since someone else has mentioned it, I came up with another one.

I did all the research on this and it doesn't look like it would be TOOOOOO hard, or at least no more difficult than wood.

Idea? Make a mold and "grow" quartz crystal on the mold, take out the mold when the quarts is "grown" thick enough and you have the smooth interior of one have of an Oc *obviously you'd need two seperate molds, one top one bottom*.

After this you just need to grind down the outside to the right shape and size and tune the finger holes *there would be nubs on the mold to make the finger holes so you don't have to drill the quartz*.

Then just glue both haves together and voila... Quartz Ocarina :D

What does everything think of this idea? I'm GOING to try it regardless at some point, but I don't have enough money to even THINK about getting the stuff required atm :shame:

If anyone wants more detail than that (I.E. how I would go about all this with more specificity) feel free to ask and I'll go ahead and post it here... just trying not to make TOOO long of a first post, although I think I already failed THAT mission :S

and OMG... we have a POPTART EMOTICON :music: :poptart: :poptart: :poptart:



oh btw, these will be sweet potato when I start making them ;)
Edited by fluffypinktank, 5 Oct 2011, 07:54 PM.
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reikokuna
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Black sheep among your daily lurkers
I think someone had a similar idea, awhile back...growing crystals big enough to make an ocarina, out of. I haven't tried looking for the post yet though.

Also, before Kael suggested anything about a glass ocarina, I know someone before him, brought the idea up. I think the person who made a thread about it, lived in a European country...well, specifically, in a city where glass blowing is done, a local art, of sorts. I don't know if the person ever pursued it though, seems like the idea just died out.

Anyway, seems like a neat idea. Not sure how feasible it will be, but I'd be interested in seeing something like that actually be done.
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Ameline
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Merf?
Wow that actually sounds pretty awesome. Im not sure how the logistics of quartz crystal growing would work, but I think id be an interesting idea. And since quartz is a pretty damned strong mineral, it would be pretty good to travel with. If you decide to make them and you end up selling them- I would be a happy buyer :D
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TimGreen
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Play what makes you happy. - Achint
It would definitely be worth trying out, you know from TC that i think its a great idea, so, you have my full support!
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fluffypinktank
Ocarina Maker (In The Rough)
Ameline
5 Oct 2011, 06:09 AM
Wow that actually sounds pretty awesome. Im not sure how the logistics of quartz crystal growing would work, but I think id be an interesting idea. And since quartz is a pretty damned strong mineral, it would be pretty good to travel with. If you decide to make them and you end up selling them- I would be a happy buyer :D


Sadly, it's a very "hard" mineral in the same was as Diamond is THE hardest... but if you drop a Crystal Ocarina I'm sure the effects will be the same as with clay :( ... Though I'm NOT testing that out if I get one made :P


reikokuna
5 Oct 2011, 06:07 AM
I think someone had a similar idea, awhile back...growing crystals big enough to make an ocarina, out of. I haven't tried looking for the post yet though.

Also, before Kael suggested anything about a glass ocarina, I know someone before him, brought the idea up. I think the person who made a thread about it, lived in a European country...well, specifically, in a city where glass blowing is done, a local art, of sorts. I don't know if the person ever pursued it though, seems like the idea just died out.

Anyway, seems like a neat idea. Not sure how feasible it will be, but I'd be interested in seeing something like that actually be done.


I'm not sure how feasible it is either to be honest, but from the research I've done it looks like it SHOULD work. As far as I know if I can get to a point where I CAN attempt it:
1. One Ocarina would take around a month or two just to grow the crystal.
and
2. I'm a pioneer on this front of Ocarina's as far as I'm aware (haven't seen an actual crystal oc before.) So I'm pretty much on my own with figuring out how to do it, including the HARDEST part of any Ocarina, windway and voicing :( (wish me luck)

TimGreen
5 Oct 2011, 06:30 AM
It would definitely be worth trying out, you know from TC that i think its a great idea, so, you have my full support!


FULL support? :fly:

Like you'll buy all the materials and EVERYTHING full support? >:3

just kidding :D
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Jhaemes
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wow

I find it sounds like a wonderful idea. As far as I know no-one else is actually doing this, Songbird do a similar thing with their stoneware crystal growth ocs but they're not viable instruments for me. Parcelforce would likely take them hostage too, adding a customs fee plus a fee for charging me a fee!

What with TC and TON I'll likely hear of developments, which I am very interested in. I wish you the best of luck with this and any other ocarina making endeavors =D
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fluffypinktank
Ocarina Maker (In The Rough)
Jhaemes
5 Oct 2011, 05:32 PM
I find it sounds like a wonderful idea. As far as I know no-one else is actually doing this, Songbird do a similar thing with their stoneware crystal growth ocs but they're not viable instruments for me. Parcelforce would likely take them hostage too, adding a customs fee plus a fee for charging me a fee!

What with TC and TON I'll likely hear of developments, which I am very interested in. I wish you the best of luck with this and any other ocarina making endeavors =D
BAH...

those song bird stoneware ocs are NOT crystal Oc's, not really similar even seeing as it LOOKS like they just glue a crystal on the outside...

mine will be MADE of crystal ;)

which makes them sexier (although it CAN'T be hard to be sexier than the Ocs you mentioned...)

and yes, as soon as I get this project started I'll DEFINITELY keep both TON and TC in the loop on how it goes so you'll definitely be hearing about it ;)
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waffo
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I missed you, interwebs.
I'd want an ocarina that can blind people at the right angle in the sun.
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HydraOcarinaV2
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The songbird rockarina is not a crystal oc. They use rock coloured clay to attach crystals onto a rock coloured ocarina. My question for you is would quartz grind down smoothly enough to be safe to touch? I know there are quartz spheres but I have no clue on how those are made.
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fluffypinktank
Ocarina Maker (In The Rough)
HydraOcarinaV2
5 Oct 2011, 06:52 PM
The songbird rockarina is not a crystal oc. They use rock coloured clay to attach crystals onto a rock coloured ocarina. My question for you is would quartz grind down smoothly enough to be safe to touch? I know there are quartz spheres but I have no clue on how those are made.
most crystal sculptures that I know of are ground into being (so to speak)

and it's not really the "grinding" that makes it "safe to the touch" so to speak, but the polishing (which is done with a grinding wheel anyway :rofl: )

but yes, if I can get one working the it will be say to touch ;)
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HydraOcarinaV2
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Just curious but are you going to start with clear quartz or coloured quartz. There are so many kinds of quartz that you have a variety to choose from.
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fluffypinktank
Ocarina Maker (In The Rough)
HydraOcarinaV2
5 Oct 2011, 07:37 PM
Just curious but are you going to start with clear quartz or coloured quartz. There are so many kinds of quartz that you have a variety to choose from.
well with growing them I don't have MUCH say other than clear, unless I dump some heavy dye into the solution before the growing starts...

but I have some Idea's about that as well ;)

gonna start out with clear, then go to maybe putting a heavy dye in to see how that affects it, then depending on the results

START growing the heavy dyed quartz, then stop about halfway through and go to clear so you have the pointy coloured quartz inside the smooth clear ;)
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natsue
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Frenchie ocarinist

If it works, I will be the first owner of your ocarina, Fysh, and you know why xD
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fluffypinktank
Ocarina Maker (In The Rough)
natsue
5 Oct 2011, 07:54 PM
If it works, I will be the first owner of your ocarina, Fysh, and you know why xD
yes... yes I do :D
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HydraOcarinaV2
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Novice Pendant Player

Is this prototype going to be a pendant or a 12 hole? Probably a 6 hole pendant would be easier to make.
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fluffypinktank
Ocarina Maker (In The Rough)
HydraOcarinaV2
5 Oct 2011, 08:59 PM
Is this prototype going to be a pendant or a 12 hole? Probably a 6 hole pendant would be easier to make.
editted top post to show, but it's going to be sweet potato ;)

I LOVE challange (and I'm not to partial to pendants)
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dwent
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Transverse Ocarinist x 3
euhWHA!? you can grow quartz?! *goes and grows a quartz house* Well now that i have that taken care of...

I've just jumped on this thread and gave a quick read-through. the previous post mentioned before about the glass is ---> HERE <--- and the other topic of a crystal based ocarina is ---> TADA! <---

While reading this thread and having the thought of a crystal ocarina in my head again, I had the idea that an inline style might be easier to make.

This is why:



All this is hypothetical of course and when I said "easier" it didn't mean this would be simple in any way despite my simple sounding instructions. Just another take on a crystal type ocarina without the need to grow your own inside a mold.

-Drew
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HydraOcarinaV2
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A geode ocarina also sounds cool. There are several problems I see with geodes though. The first is that to cut a geode properly you need to get a diamond saw. It's a blade whose edges are coated with diamond so it can cut through anything. The problem with diamond saws is that they tend to wear out quickly when used on hard stone like a geode. Second is that the crystals inside a geode are very easy to break. Unless the inside is completely solid and not crystal like it will be easy to shatter if you work with it. Another problem I see is hollowing out the geode to get clear sound. You'd have to sacrifice crystal beauty for sound quality. A hobby of mine is digging for geodes so I back up my word as an amateur geode hunter.
Edited by HydraOcarinaV2, 7 Oct 2011, 06:35 PM.
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dwent
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yes i realize that cutting/drilling a geode would be difficult and the same can be said for trying to hollow one out.

that is why i proposed my "easier" idea. the only cutting/drilling needed would be in the sheet of acrylic. it is possible to purchase geodes that are already pre-cut and already have a large enough cavity that would make for a decent sized chamber. the finger-holes i've suggested are in the acrylic part and not in the geode part.

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fluffypinktank
Ocarina Maker (In The Rough)
dwent
7 Oct 2011, 07:04 PM
yes i realize that cutting/drilling a geode would be difficult and the same can be said for trying to hollow one out.

that is why i proposed my "easier" idea. the only cutting/drilling needed would be in the sheet of acrylic. it is possible to purchase geodes that are already pre-cut and already have a large enough cavity that would make for a decent sized chamber. the finger-holes i've suggested are in the acrylic part and not in the geode part.

only problem with a geode *as stated before your second post* is that the crystals in a geode are NOT a "smooth" surface, in order for an Ocarina to sound the interior HAS to be smooth. So you'd have to chisel and scrape and smooth the crystals inside so the Oc could sound at all... only problem with this is you lose the sexehness that is the "pointy" crystals... :(
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HydraOcarinaV2
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The only way I can see a geode ocarina is if you took sliced solid pieces of geode without crystals and glued them together to form a Mountain Ocarina. For that reason I can see the acrylic being the top and adding finger holes in that. Maybe that's how the stone mountain ocarinas are made.
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Kalasinar
Ars longa, vita brevis
dwent
 
5. Complete tuning process

6. ????

7. Profit!


Was that an underpants gnomes reference? :rofl:

Posted Image
Edited by Kalasinar, 8 Oct 2011, 01:48 AM.
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Jack Campin
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Opener of Catfood Tins

The inside of an ocarina does not have to be smooth. I have an old Austrian tunable and looked inside the hole where the tuning slide mount goes - not a pretty sight. But it sounds fine.

Growing an ocarina-sized quartz crystal at home is impossible.
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natsue
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Frenchie ocarinist

Kalasinar
8 Oct 2011, 12:36 AM
dwent
 
5. Complete tuning process

6. ????

7. Profit!


Was that an underpants gnomes reference? :rofl:

Posted Image
You silly ! xD (South Park ftw !)
Edited by natsue, 8 Oct 2011, 07:30 AM.
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fluffypinktank
Ocarina Maker (In The Rough)
So anyway, back to the topic at hand, I've got prices in mind for the wooden ocs I'm going to start making *when they get good enough to sell*

But for this I have absolutely NOOOO idea, near as I can tell, if I get one completed it'll be the first of it's kind (going to natsue >:3 .)

After I start getting them made on a more regular basis... anyone got prices in mind for what they'd pay for a quartz Oc (obviously only if it sounds nice and has good playability, of course) ??? :?
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waffo
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I missed you, interwebs.
Well, what's the minimum supplies and labor cost? I have no idea how much the amount of quartz needed would even cost.
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HydraOcarinaV2
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Novice Pendant Player

I've seen crystal growing kits in Science stores and at Costco. I wonder if those will work to make the crystal ocarina.
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Achint
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Fat Mouse >^_^<

fluffypinktank
9 Oct 2011, 01:20 AM
But for this I have absolutely NOOOO idea, near as I can tell, if I get one completed it'll be the first of it's kind (going to natsue >:3 .)
SO you'd give a free oc to Julie but not to me?! FINE FYSH! *sulks in a corner* :(
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natsue
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Frenchie ocarinist

Achint
9 Oct 2011, 08:50 AM
fluffypinktank
9 Oct 2011, 01:20 AM
But for this I have absolutely NOOOO idea, near as I can tell, if I get one completed it'll be the first of it's kind (going to natsue >:3 .)
SO you'd give a free oc to Julie but not to me?! FINE FYSH! *sulks in a corner* :(
You have to know that it's a trade between Fysh and me (the famous "ocarina" that I have and the first "quartz" from Fysh), and I can pay an extra for this ocarina.
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Achint
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Fat Mouse >^_^<

Haha Julie it's a joke :P
It's something we joke about in TC xD
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fluffypinktank
Ocarina Maker (In The Rough)
waffo
9 Oct 2011, 07:10 AM
Well, what's the minimum supplies and labor cost? I have no idea how much the amount of quartz needed would even cost.
supplies won't be TOOOOOOO bad I don't think, mostly whatever it costs to make the mold, then I wanna say I found the SiO2 that I need at a rate of about 10 USD per Kg (could be off a bit but yea.)

I don't see it taking an entire Kg or more of SiO2, but having never grown quartz and only doing the research on it (though my research was QUITE extensive) I won't honestly know how much it'll actually take, until I get to doing it...

so here's the thing, take out all variables that could be re-used (i.e. the mold, the pots used to mix the solution etc.)

That leaves us with the (atm assumed) 1 Kg of SiO2 for 10 USD
^ that's the only cost for "materials" so to speak, atm...

So now labor, it's not very labor INTENSIVE as I just mix the solution, pour over mold and proceed to let it sit for around a month (exact time is uncertain as well :shame: )

Then all I have to do is take my time grinding the exterior of the Oc (which the quartz is thick enough) to the actual shape I'm looking for...

So Labor, say we do 10 dollars an hour for my effort, now we're looking at maybe around 50 USD.

I don't know but that seems quite low for something this unique, so let's add a "premium" because of the medium in which the Oc is being made, I have no idea what said "premium" should be, I'd LOOOOVVVVVVVEEEEE to sell them from 1,000 USD, but what's the point if no one will sell them ya know? and I'd CAN'T sell them for 100 USD or less, because EVERYONE will buy them and I LITERALLY won't be able to make them fast enough...

The only thing I can think to do would be to add "labor" cost for the time spent growing the crystal, even though I'm not really doing anything.

in which case 1 USD/hour * 720 hours in a month... would make it 720+50+10... = 780 USD for the Quartz Oc...
Does that sound like a fair price?? not TOOOO outrageous (like chen ching (sp)) and not TOO outrageously low... I don't think

I think that sounds aboot right :D

What do you all think?
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Achint
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Fat Mouse >^_^<

$720 for something you've admittedly said costs $50? xD
I don't think so dude :p

Sure, there's time invested, but how much of that time is actually waiting for the quartz to actually sprout?
As an ocarina player and buyer, I'm not gonna pay a maker roughly $700 to sit around the house.

Think about it like this. Hind ocarinas sound fabulous and a LOT more effort goes into that and there's the potential of it being very, very dangerous because there's a buttload of sharp instruments being used and I'm sure in the 30+ years Mr. Hind's been making his instruments he's had a few accidents. Yet, they only cost $400 and that's including the costs of renewing sanding wheels, buying materials for future ocarinas and most importantly the actual cost of exotic woods like Purpleheart, Grenadilla, etc.

You're asking for nearly double that price to just "grow" an ocarina.

I've honestly got no idea on how much it should be worth. But personally it would depend on a bunch of factors such as playability, ergonomics, how it sounds and since you are selling it as something that looks good... well, how good DOES it look?
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fluffypinktank
Ocarina Maker (In The Rough)
Once again achint, look at the medium being used... it's hard as HELL to work with quartz according to all my research... due to that level of difficulty I could charge around 50+ USD per hour of my ACTUAL work... which would automatically raise the "50 USD" to around 250 USD... I simply used a simple "/hour" rate that was low but not INSANE, and then put down a dollar for each hour of growing time, now mind you if that takes only TWO WEEKS as opposed to a month, it won't be 700+ dollars now will it?

Either way I do somewhat agree with you SOMEWHAT that I shouldn't get paid for sitting around, BUT... you DO have to look at the medium I'm using and the level of difficulty, which is probably WAY harder than wood in certain aspects...

Yea, with wood you'd have to actually MAKE the Oc, and with Quartz I would just cut a previously made Oc in half and make a mold...

But with the quartz, I have to grind it down, which is a very painstaking process that if rushed will destroy the quartz and thus, no Oc... start over anyone??

So yea, I don't THINK I should get paid to sit around, but if you look at the medium used is it REALLY that high of a price?? (One of the reasons I posted that question, to get opinions, thanks for yours :D )

*anxiously awaits a reply*



EDIT:

And as for your last couple comments... I have no IDEA yet how well it'll play or look, won't TRULY know until one is made. However, I think it could be assumed that it SHOULD play equal to that of the Oc the mold was made from... as For looks, honestly won't know until the first one comes off the mold, ya know?



EDIT: typos? probably missed a few while looking for them :P
Edited by fluffypinktank, 9 Oct 2011, 04:05 PM.
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Achint
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Fat Mouse >^_^<

fluffypinktank
9 Oct 2011, 03:59 PM
Once again achint, look at the medium being used... it's hard as HELL to work with quartz according to all my research... due to that level of difficulty I could charge around 50+ USD per hour of my ACTUAL work... which would automatically raise the "50 USD" to around 250 USD... I simply used a simple "/hour" rate that was low but not INSANE, and then put down a dollar for each hour of growing time, now mind you if that takes only TWO WEEKS as opposed to a month, it won't be 700+ dollars now will it?

Either way I do somewhat agree with you SOMEWHAT that I should get paid for sitting around, BUT... you DO have to look at the medium I'm using and the level of difficulty, which is probably WAY harder than wood in certain aspects...

Yea, with wood you'd have to actually MAKE the Oc, and with Quartz I would just cut a previously made Oc in half and make a mold...

But with the quartz, I have to grind it down, which is a very painstaking process that if rushed will destroy the quartz and thus, no Oc... start over anyone??

So yea, I don't THINK I should get paid to sit around, but if you look at the medium used is it REALLY that high of a price?? (One of the reasons I posted that question, to get opinions, thanks for yours :D )

*anxiously awaits a reply*
The medium is different that wood sure, but in terms of difficulty, I personally don't see it being any different than wood.
Let's take out the mold for a second and focus on your argument of grinding quartz down.

It's no harder than sanding and smoothing a piece of wood. Sand the wood too much in early stages and risk making the ocarina imbalanced in terms of shape, sand again to fix the shape and risk sanding into the the shape itself.
Sand too much in later stages and risk going through the finish that's already been applied.

I personally don't see a difference in terms of difficulty. What's difficult in a potential quartz ocarina in the later stages is compensated for during the early stages of woodwork.
But this is only my opinion. Would I pay $720 for a good looking, good sounding quartz ocarina? No, not really.

And again, I don't see why you should be paid for growing time. Infact, lower your prices, grow them en masse and then sell them as the orders come in. That would be my personal workflow though.
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fluffypinktank
Ocarina Maker (In The Rough)
Achint
9 Oct 2011, 04:07 PM
fluffypinktank
9 Oct 2011, 03:59 PM
Once again achint, look at the medium being used... it's hard as HELL to work with quartz according to all my research... due to that level of difficulty I could charge around 50+ USD per hour of my ACTUAL work... which would automatically raise the "50 USD" to around 250 USD... I simply used a simple "/hour" rate that was low but not INSANE, and then put down a dollar for each hour of growing time, now mind you if that takes only TWO WEEKS as opposed to a month, it won't be 700+ dollars now will it?

Either way I do somewhat agree with you SOMEWHAT that I should get paid for sitting around, BUT... you DO have to look at the medium I'm using and the level of difficulty, which is probably WAY harder than wood in certain aspects...

Yea, with wood you'd have to actually MAKE the Oc, and with Quartz I would just cut a previously made Oc in half and make a mold...

But with the quartz, I have to grind it down, which is a very painstaking process that if rushed will destroy the quartz and thus, no Oc... start over anyone??

So yea, I don't THINK I should get paid to sit around, but if you look at the medium used is it REALLY that high of a price?? (One of the reasons I posted that question, to get opinions, thanks for yours :D )

*anxiously awaits a reply*
The medium is different that wood sure, but in terms of difficulty, I personally don't see it being any different than wood.
Let's take out the mold for a second and focus on your argument of grinding quartz down.

It's no harder than sanding and smoothing a piece of wood. Sand the wood too much in early stages and risk making the ocarina imbalanced in terms of shape, sand again to fix the shape and risk sanding into the the shape itself.
Sand too much in later stages and risk going through the finish that's already been applied.

I personally don't see a difference in terms of difficulty. What's difficult in a potential quartz ocarina in the later stages is compensated for during the early stages of woodwork.
But this is only my opinion. Would I pay $720 for a good looking, good sounding quartz ocarina? No, not really.

And again, I don't see why you should be paid for growing time. Infact, lower your prices, grow them en masse and then sell them as the orders come in. That would be my personal workflow though.
1. for all this bashing of my suggested price (which I posted to get opinions on, not to say that's my final price) you haven't suggested anything remotely to the area the prices should be in...

2. You say they're no different in difficulty... but if you oversand just a HAIR... your fine with wood... over grind just a hair with Quartz??? Quartz shatters you get to start over...

How is that EQUAL in difficulty?

And mind you, I'm NOT saying that you can oversand all day long on wood and be fine, I understand that won't be the case, I'm just saying that you have more leeway to mess up with WOOD than you do with QUARTZ...

All that being said, would you like to suggest a rough price range where they should be???

Or are you going to continue bashing the 700 number and not throw out a counter to it at all?
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Jhaemes
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wow

Since Fysh obviously isn't a factory in China (for example), he can't really power our loads of ocs each day.

If I understand it correctly, Fysh is kind of a mix between a 100% hand-made oc maker (Spencer for example) and a big company with a factory (Noble for example).

Fysh, I guess could grow enough material to make the crystal ocs on a large scale (depending on house space etc). But, when they are all grown he has to individually carve each oc himself, so even though he had a shape for the mould, he still has to do lots of tedious, time consuming labour.

In that respect, if I had the money I guess that I would pay around 130 dollars.

Fysh needs to make money somewhere, or else he'll literally be making ocarinas for free (buyer basically pays him the money he spent solely on material). The problem you'll face is price it too highly and people will think "Oh, for 500 dollars (example), I could get a Focalink Forte Triple", nothing wrong with that in my opinion, but when you can get that ocarina for the money you have, you'd probably buy it instead of say a single chamber AC.

The simplest thing would be to wait until you start making the crystal ocarinas and keep track of all the expenses. I'd also record how many hours actually working it took, I'd count the time it takes the crystal to grow and put that in brackets. Then at the end, when you've got the batch all ready and finished tally up the costs and hours. You then add a bit of money on top of that for the time you've spent actually working on them, add what you think is a fair amount.

Again, it's about profit. If you can grow 30 crystal ocarinas, the cost you add yourself can be lower, since the the profit you'll make on each ocarina will be multiplied by 30, in this case. If you can only grow 10 crystal ocarinas, the costs you add need to be higher in order to accommodate that.

Finally, after this long post (my laptop battery started at 100%, bordering on 56% now), I would set aside a few crystal ocarinas you've made and try and get a booth at a craft fair. You might have to half like half a stall next to someone else's, since you won't have hundreds to sell (I'm guessing). At the least, it gets the product out there and shows it off more than on TON.

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fluffypinktank
Ocarina Maker (In The Rough)
Ty for your opinion... and while I will say you are quite right in making multiples at a time, I can't do that with the first one for obvious reasons, and even if I DO get to that point, I will only have enough room for maybe 5 Ocs at any one time.

Given that, I do plan to EVENTUALLY start making doubles and even triples if they workout well as singles to start with.

With that knowledge in mind... with what achint was saying, it won't take any EXTRA effort on my part to make a double or triple than it would to make a single... so should my doubles and triples cost the same as my singles??
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Achint
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Fat Mouse >^_^<

Gosh Fysh, don't get so mad xD
I'm not bashing your prices, I'm only throwing ideas out there for you to bounce back. I just feel it helps with the thought process.

Like I said, I have no idea how much they should cost, but if I assume I'm in your position this is my thought process:

10% of value of tools used for matainance purposes (So files + moulds + whatever else * 10%) + cost of materials + time spent on the ocarina itself (NOT growing time) @ a rate of $10 / hour + (Sayyy) 10% - 30% Profit margin. (This would ordinarily be quite low but since you'd have a monopoly on quartz ocarinas, it's fine.)
That for me would work because it's fair.

So tools = $200 * 10% = $20
Raw Materials = $50
Time Spent = $10 * 10 Hours = $100 (The price is high because of the precision and skill involved with such a craft, as you have pointed out)
and finally you need to make a profit so;

Total = $170, round off to $200.
With a 30% profit applied you make: $260. (With all the rounding off, I'd round it down to $250 even.)

THAT for me, is a fair (albeit on the high side owing to the rounding off) price. Given that you're one person and you're working with a highly fragile and delicate material, would be fine.

And again, not being paid for growing time... here's an analogy for you:
Mr. Hind doesn't ask for money for calling his supplier of wood and waiting while it arrives does he? If a wood isn't available, it's not available. Simple.

Edited by Achint, 9 Oct 2011, 05:46 PM.
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HydraOcarinaV2
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Novice Pendant Player

Personally I'd pay the equivalent price of a cluster of quartz crystals. It's not only a instrument but a beautiful decorative piece as well. In that sense I'd pay between 200 USD and 500 USD at most. Crystals are really hard to work with but the real challenge does come from the proper polishing and smoothing of the crystal. That's why I would pay at most 500 based on time and work. Though I'm sure the first one made will determine a lot more for the future. My best advice would be to make nothing certain until the first say 3 are made.
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fluffypinktank
Ocarina Maker (In The Rough)
HydraOcarinaV2
9 Oct 2011, 05:37 PM
Personally I'd pay the equivalent price of a cluster of quartz crystals. It's not only a instrument but a beautiful decorative piece as well. In that sense I'd pay between 200 USD and 500 USD at most. Crystals are really hard to work with but the real challenge does come from the proper polishing and smoothing of the crystal. That's why I would pay at most 500 based on time and work. Though I'm sure the first one made will determine a lot more for the future. My best advice would be to make nothing certain until the first say 3 are made.
Oh trust me, I'm most DEFINITELY going to take the time to polish it to BEAUTY... That's without a doubt.

And as far as the rest of your post, that is what I was talking about, I know Quartz sells as just clusters, and clusters of the equivalent weight of what these Ocs will be, are NOT exactly "cheap".

So as far as price, I'm still up in the air, suppose I won't know 100% on the price until after the first one is made and works.

But the question still remains about the doubles and triples, it won't take me ANY more effort to make a double or triple, so should they go against the regular flow of Oc pricing and be the same price as a single??
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Jhaemes
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wow

Personally, I'd have a small mark-up between single, double and triple.

Maybe 20 or 25 up from the price of a single? Since it'd take more crystals for example, that's a fair mark-up that doesn't leap hundreds of dollars ^^
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Achint
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Fat Mouse >^_^<

But then why produce single chambers at all?
If it's only a $25 mark up there's no reason to buy the single.

Imo, you're using more raw materials and tools. The time invested to make sure the chamber balance is achieved perfectly and the precision needed to achieve this would be greater than a single.
Just because the time invested in growing the ocarinas in a mould is the same doesn't mean it won't be harder to achieve a great ocarina.

I say forget about the double for now. Perfect a single chamber, and perfect your wooden ocarinas as well and then even THINK about a double.
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Jhaemes
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wow

Well, the 25 dollars was just an example / placeholder. The mark-up shouldn't be too big, think Focalink DAC to TAC for example (333 dollars difference).

Fysh can't do all his financial planning for the ocs yet, but he should have a general idea of pricing ; one that doesn't make people discard it for being too high, but at the same time making it a viable project for Fysh to run.
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waffo
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I missed you, interwebs.
I'd agree with Achint's earlier post where he ended up around $250. $750+ is...going to scare a lot of people away. $100 sounds a bit too cheap and doesn't sound worth it for the work.
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fluffypinktank
Ocarina Maker (In The Rough)
waffo
9 Oct 2011, 08:37 PM
I'd agree with Achint's earlier post where he ended up around $250. $750+ is...going to scare a lot of people away. $100 sounds a bit too cheap and doesn't sound worth it for the work.
well I wasn't stating that that WAS going to be the final price set in stone or anything... just giving an example.

I wasn't expecting that to be the final price to be honest, but as already stated (and finalized by you) 100 is just too cheap.

So I've got a decent list of pricing suggestions now (both from here and Tinychat.)

So yea... any other questions or comments on the quartz Oc idea?
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