|
| Welcome to The Ocarina Network, a place for ocarina enthusiasts from all around the globe! You're currently viewing The Ocarina Network as a guest. If you join The Ocarina Network, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. On top of that we have a great number of music scores and backtracks for you to download. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Register at The Ocarina Network! If you're already a member please log into your account to access all of our features: |
| Problem with High Tones, cant find the solution!; Please try to help me with this Problem | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Mar 20 2010, 05:30 PM (261 Views) | |
| Alkali | Mar 20 2010, 05:30 PM Post #1 |
|
Beginner
|
Good evening all of you, (Im sorry for my bad English) I wasted a lot of time on searching the solution for my Problem with the High Tones of my Ocarina and what a suprise, i couldnt find it. I watched many Tutorials on Youtube, read the things abaout the Acute Band, but nothing of this all helped me. First ill show you a Picture if my 2 Ocarinas: http://s2.imgimg.de/uploads/DSC0024132249db0JPG.jpg The one of the Top is Easier to play as the one on the bottom. I ll upload some Sounds, so you can hear my Problem. here is the archive, it contains number 1 and 2 as example: http://ul.to/nskdua Please tell me if you can find the Problem by hearing the Sounds Edited by Alkali, Mar 20 2010, 05:31 PM.
|
 |
 
|
| O'Poltergeist | Mar 20 2010, 07:34 PM Post #2 |
Pink Elephant on Parade
|
The one on top is a Plaschke and should be fine once you get used to it. My Plaschke Alto C plays fine without any "acute bend". (IMHO the need for this technique is a sign for a bad ocarina design.) The one on the bottom is a Schwarz and is the worst ocarina I've got. Use it as a paperweight, but don't play it - it will just cause frustration. Perhaps you are making a mistake with the fingering? Both your ocarinas are European ocarinas and use the last two holes in a different way than the Asian ocarinas. On European ocarinas the high E is played with the right thumb hole closed and the left pinky hole open, whereas Asian ocarinas play the high E with both thumb holes open and the hole for the left pinky closed. |
|
|
|
| kissing | Mar 21 2010, 10:11 AM Post #3 |
there is always time for a song
|
From the relative sizes, I think that they're both Alto C's. The bottom one, don't try playing that one lol. The only solution to a Schwarz is a nice big cup of better ocarina  The top one, I haven't played before. But from what I've heard, it's probably not the best at high notes either. But better than the Schwarz nevertheless.
I disagree. Acute bend is a very common practice needed for ocarinas, particularly in Alto C. By your opinion, many of the most highly regarded ocarinas, including the ones used by today's professionals, would be considered 'bad ocarina design'. Unfortunately it's in the physics of a 12-hole ocarina tuned to around Alto C. 10-holes (or less holes) and first-chambers of double and triple ocarinas get away without Acute bend much more easily as they have less holes than 12-holes. I guess since I play multichambered ocarinas more often than single-chambers, it hasn't been bothering me much these days. Acute Bend instructions: http://theocarinanetwork.com/topic/101541/ *moving topic to Question and Answers* Edited by kissing, Mar 21 2010, 10:15 AM.
|
|
|
|
| O'Poltergeist | Mar 21 2010, 10:28 AM Post #4 |
|
Pink Elephant on Parade
|
I've studied physics. And I don't really see why there should be a problem limited to a certain pitch. The physics of Helmholtz resonators are the same for every pitch, aren't they? If it really is in the physics I'd like to know more about it: which specific law is responsible? But I highly doubt it. None of my ocarinas need the acute bend except perhaps that Focalink that I got from Teddy Tseng, which I don't consider a well designed ocarina because of its faulty subholes. My only other 12 hole Alto C is my Solist Plastic Alto C, and it plays well without the acute bend, too. You need a proper breathing technique, but you need that anyway. And the acute bend is unplayable in fast music with large leaps. |
|
|
|
| Crowler | Mar 21 2010, 10:37 AM Post #5 |
emergency medical hologram
|
Well, excluding my Spencer which I've barely touched, the other alto Cs that I've tried, that MapAram, Woodsound, the Focalinks from Somgbird and the STL Zelda Replica all have require the acute bend. The MapAram and Woodsound are certainly professional quality, so I wouldn't say that all ocarinas requiring it are bad ocarinas. My transverses that don't need it are my Dunster Eb and Woodsound SC (this also applies to the MapAram SC), and are all different tunings. One of the things Hyunil Ko says on his information about his ocarinas, is that only his alto Cs require the acute bend. The Noble plastic alto C doesn't require the acute bend, however their ceramic alto C does. It may be down to a property of the plastic. On the 'Focalink', it may be something to do with it sounding airy regardless of whether you use the acute bend or not, so the ocarina will sound airy, like others, if you don't use the acute bend. On the note of fast music... I think that with practice it could be learnt to do quickly. I mean, so long as you're not going to drop your ocarina doing it, the acute bend is something you could do as you're going through a scale, and I'm sure that you could put practice into doing it fast enough. |
|
|
|
| kissing | Mar 21 2010, 10:46 AM Post #6 |
|
there is always time for a song
|
I'm not sure about the physical laws either, but the range of Alto C seems to be a dilemma to ocarina makers. As for the Solist AC, if you do use acute bend, you'll find that it improves the tone anyway, am I wrong? So why avoid and discourage a technique that improves the tone? Acute bend is not a cheat for bad breathing technique. It should be a technique used alongside good breathing technique. Acute bend is a perfectl |
|
|
|
| Krešimir Cindrić | Mar 21 2010, 11:09 AM Post #7 |
In love with Ocarina di Budrio
|
You're right, but only partially. When you have a good breathing technique, of course if the acute bend helps tone quality, you should do it. Almost all Asian ocarinas are designed with acute bend in mind and it is a necessary technique. However, if people use acute bend to quickly improve their tone quality without working first on their breathing, than it really is a bad shortcut to superficially better results. I wouldn't recommend using it to serious beginners until they can get a clean, decent tone without it. I do not agree with Poltergeist that the need for this technique is a sign of bad design. Some ocarinas need it, some don't. Most Asian ocarinas and some European ocarinas need it and Menaglio ocarinas do not need it. Kurt Posch alto C ocarina does need it and it's a very fine ocarina with a sound much cleaner than Menaglio (but not as beautiful as the sound of Menaglio's ocarina ).
Edited by Krešimir Cindrić, Mar 21 2010, 11:10 AM.
|
|
|
|
| O'Poltergeist | Mar 21 2010, 12:23 PM Post #8 |
|
Pink Elephant on Parade
|
"Bad" design was probably the wrong word. Something like "unnecessarily difficult for players" might be better. My point is that I believe that you can build 12 hole Alto C ocarinas without the need for an acute bend. And I seriously think that the acute bend is a technique that gets in your way if you want to play advanced music on the ocarina, other than slow songs. That said it is probably okay to design an ocarina specifically for the playing of slow songs without great leaps - with the need for an acute bend. It's just not an instrument that I would want to play for most of the music that I like. Back to topic, the upper ocarina on the picture is a Plaschke. I've got a Plaschke Student Alto C, and it is an excellent instrument. It really surprised me, because it's got the ugly blue paint on it and it was so cheap, but it has a very pleasing tone and and a very good playability. You really should try to play it without the acute bend, concentrating on your breathing technique instead of concentrating on changing your head position. |
|
|
|
| Krešimir Cindrić | Mar 21 2010, 12:49 PM Post #9 |
|
In love with Ocarina di Budrio
|
You can play fast songs with "acute bend" because there is no harm in doing it on the low notes too - you can stand with the ocarina it that position throughout the entire piece you're playing. About Plaschke, it is the only ocarina that can be bought in Zagreb. I tried one at the Gewa shop, but never bought it because I wasn't impressed with it's sound. That said, it's definitely not a bad ocarina, but it is also not a great one. And yes, I don't think this ocarina needs acute bending, just good breathing technique. |
|
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| « Previous Topic · Question and Answer · Next Topic » |
2:21 PM Jul 31
