Who invented the double/triple ocarina?

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Who invented the double/triple ocarina?; As in the multi-chamber range expanding ocarina
Topic Started: Mar 13 2010, 01:30 AM (468 Views)
Bunjiro	Mar 13 2010, 01:30 AM Post #1
Ocarinist Posts: 186 Group: Member Member #462 Joined: May 27, 2008 Browser: Google Chrome Oc of Choice: Mountain Warmstone G	So we all know how John Taylor invented the English pendant fingering system, how Giuseppe Donati invented the Sweet Potato 10-hole in the 19th century, and that Takeshi Aketagawa took the 10-hole design and created the 12-hole in the early 20th century in Japan. What I've been unable to find out through Western channels is, who invented the modern multi-chamber expanded range ocarina? From what I've seen mostly Asian companies make these (Charlie Hind excluded) - Focalink, Noble, Maparam, WPN/TNG... (Please fill me in on more companies that sell transverse multi-chambered range-expanding ocarinas if you know any). That points to a person/company in Asia coming up with this. So who came up with it? Do we know of a single inventor or was it just "an idea" that several makers started working on at the same time? I don't even know when double/triple ocarinas started being sold. Any information on the subject would be very appreciated.



Abreu	Mar 13 2010, 01:33 AM Post #2
The guy from Brazil Posts: 730 Group: Member Member #5,737 Joined: August 23, 2009 Browser: Firefox 3.5 Oc of Choice: Focalink 12-hole AC-B	Even tought I don't know who invented them, I know that european makers such as Fabio Menaglio and Claudio Colombo also have multi-chambered coarinas, among others I don't remember the name, so I do not know if it is an "Asia exclusive" type of oc.



Bunjiro	Mar 13 2010, 01:52 AM Post #3
Ocarinist Posts: 186 Group: Member Member #462 Joined: May 27, 2008 Browser: Google Chrome Oc of Choice: Mountain Warmstone G	Abreu Mar 13 2010, 01:33 AM Even tought I don't know who invented them, I know that european makers such as Fabio Menaglio and Claudio Colombo also have multi-chambered coarinas, among others I don't remember the name, so I do not know if it is an "Asia exclusive" type of oc. Speaking of Menaglio, if this double is what you're referring to, I believe that is a harmony double. At the very least, it's definitely inline - not transverse, which is what I'm after. Claudio Colombo seems to make transverse doubles & triples. Thanks for the information! Still, that's what - 4 Asian makers, one American (who began quite recently), and one European? The clues still point to Asia. (From what I can see, harmony double ocarinas seem to be far more prevalent in the US & EU) Edited by Bunjiro, Mar 13 2010, 01:52 AM.



kissing	Mar 13 2010, 02:31 AM Post #4
there is always time for a song Posts: 4,395 Group: Administrator Member #4 Joined: February 3, 2008 Oc of Choice: Panch Alto C Website: http://youtube.com/kissing88	I believe it was an Italian maker. The first 12-hole style Double I know of was made by Aketa in Japan. And the first 12-hole style was made by Icarus in Japan. But I think there would have been an earlier 10-hole style double in Italy first..



Bunjiro	Mar 13 2010, 02:40 AM Post #5
Ocarinist Posts: 186 Group: Member Member #462 Joined: May 27, 2008 Browser: Google Chrome Oc of Choice: Mountain Warmstone G	kissing Mar 13 2010, 02:31 AM I believe it was an Italian maker. The first 12-hole style Double I know of was made by Aketa in Japan. And the first 12-hole style was made by Icarus in Japan. But I think there would have been an earlier 10-hole style double in Italy first.. Interesting on two accounts: 1. I thought Takashi Aketagawa invented the 12-hole ocarina. Who is this Icarus, and do you have some sort of source for this information? 2. Also, I found a mention of the Italian maker in this history of the ocarina: Quote: Yet another Italian instrument maker by the name of Luigi Silvestri invented the double ocarina, which was exported around the world. This is also mentioned inthe German Wikipedia article on ocarinas. I can't find any source though, except that it's probably from either of two books: "Die Okarina" by Anton Hirschmugl, or some kind of material from Ocarina Werkstatt. Googling "Luigi Silvestri ocarina" didn't give too much either, though I didn't look too deep - might go back and do that another day since it's getting late here.



kissing	Mar 13 2010, 04:32 AM Post #6
there is always time for a song Posts: 4,395 Group: Administrator Member #4 Joined: February 3, 2008 Oc of Choice: Panch Alto C Website: http://youtube.com/kissing88	Quote: Who is this Icarus, and do you have some sort of source for this information? Oops, sorry. I mean the first 12-hole style TRIPLE ocarina. He's a Japanese maker. Osawa has some Icarus ocarinas (that reddish-brown one he occasionally uses). They're something of a collectors item for triple ocarina players, and all triple ocarinas on the market today are based on his original design. I don't know much about him, other than he doesn't sell his ocarinas often. He seems to select people he approves of to make them ocarinas. Osawa himself has been noted to have said that the Icarus ocarina is quite difficult to play, as it uses powerful breath. Icarus triple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wilmHR3DiQo Here's a video where he plays the icarus triple and the noble together http://www.nobleocarina.net/movie/yedang/dw.wmv (note: Download) Here's an Icarus triple picture: I'm not sure if this image is working coz I'm on a public computer that blocks pics from photobucket... Here is a picture of Maparam, Icarus and Noble (old design) triples: http://album.blog.yam.com/show.php?a=piwenwen&f=2158537&i=77458127&p=0 Edited by kissing, Mar 13 2010, 04:41 AM.



delorean	Mar 13 2010, 11:11 PM Post #7
Inliner x 5 Posts: 100 Group: Member Member #680 Joined: June 18, 2008	Bunjiro Mar 13 2010, 02:40 AM 2. Also, I found a mention of the Italian maker in this history of the ocarina: Quote: Yet another Italian instrument maker by the name of Luigi Silvestri invented the double ocarina, which was exported around the world. Yes, Luigi Silvestri (1840-1927) invented the double ocarina. He was contemporary of Giuseppe Donati and you can see some of his ocarinas at the New York Museum of Modern Art.



Bunjiro	Mar 13 2010, 11:43 PM Post #8
Ocarinist Posts: 186 Group: Member Member #462 Joined: May 27, 2008 Browser: Google Chrome Oc of Choice: Mountain Warmstone G	delorean Yes, Luigi Silvestri (1840-1927) invented the double ocarina. He was contemporary of Giuseppe Donati and you can see some of his ocarinas at the New York Museum of Modern Art. Wow, really? That's really cool... I might have to look into that more closely Edit: I can't find any mention of Silvestri on the MoMA website. Google doesn't seem to yield much either. Do you have anything to back up this claim? Edited by Bunjiro, Mar 13 2010, 11:56 PM.



Kre�imir Cindrić	Mar 14 2010, 12:02 AM Post #9
In love with Ocarina di Budrio Posts: 2,000 Group: Intern Member #4,267 Joined: May 14, 2009 Browser: Google Chrome Oc of Choice: Menaglio, Pacchioni, Rotter, Posch... Website: http://www.facebook.com/kcindric	It was Luigi Silvestri, definitely. I've seen a picture of his double ocarina from the end of 19th Century.



Bunjiro	Mar 14 2010, 12:09 AM Post #10
Ocarinist Posts: 186 Group: Member Member #462 Joined: May 27, 2008 Browser: Google Chrome Oc of Choice: Mountain Warmstone G	kissing Mar 13 2010, 04:32 AM Quote: Who is this Icarus, and do you have some sort of source for this information? Oops, sorry. I mean the first 12-hole style TRIPLE ocarina. He's a Japanese maker. Osawa has some Icarus ocarinas (that reddish-brown one he occasionally uses). They're something of a collectors item for triple ocarina players, and all triple ocarinas on the market today are based on his original design. I don't know much about him, other than he doesn't sell his ocarinas often. He seems to select people he approves of to make them ocarinas. It seems the Italians were first with the triple ocarina as well, according to Clayz: Clayz (My emphasis) Luigi Silvestri had originated a double ocarina, with two octaves, with a smaller ocarina inside a bigger one; the model then inspired Antonio Canella to originate a " Bi-ocarina ", made of two ocarinas, one above the other with two mouthpieces close together, and from it Emilio Cesari. developed the triple ocarina. So we have the following development: Donati invents single ocarina. Silvestri invents double ocarina. Canella further develops the double, and Cesari develops the triple. Then, in a sort-of different direction, Aketagawa develops the 12-hole single. Ikarus probably finds out about Cesari's triples and invents a triple with 12-hole fingering. The last part is just a guess. I'll try to find out more while I'm in Japan - I'm writing my bachelor's essay on the history of the ocarina in Japan, so I'll have plenty of opportunity to research this... Edited by Bunjiro, Mar 14 2010, 12:12 AM.



delorean	Mar 14 2010, 12:19 AM Post #11
Inliner x 5 Posts: 100 Group: Member Member #680 Joined: June 18, 2008	Bunjiro Mar 13 2010, 11:43 PM delorean Yes, Luigi Silvestri (1840-1927) invented the double ocarina. He was contemporary of Giuseppe Donati and you can see some of his ocarinas at the New York Museum of Modern Art. Wow, really? That's really cool... I might have to look into that more closely Edit: I can't find any mention of Silvestri on the MoMA website. Google doesn't seem to yield much either. Do you have anything to back up this claim? I've found only this page from Wikipedia (italian language): http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campodoro It's the wikipedia page for Campodoro, the village where Silvestri was born. At the middle of the page is wrote that some of his ocarinas are shown at the MoMA.



kissing	Mar 14 2010, 01:57 PM Post #12
there is always time for a song Posts: 4,395 Group: Administrator Member #4 Joined: February 3, 2008 Oc of Choice: Panch Alto C Website: http://youtube.com/kissing88	Hence why I said "12-hole style triple"



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