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| Stl Triple Plastic Ocarina ! | |
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| Topic Started: Mar 8 2010, 02:12 AM (2,878 Views) | |
| ocarina begginer | Mar 8 2010, 02:12 AM Post #1 |
lover of the plastic ocarina
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OMG A TRIPLE PLASTIC OCARINA!!!!! i cant believe it , this is so amazing , oh,oh  if some one knows more about this amazing ocarina and the focalink plastic alto c please let me know meanwhile here is the video in where i dicover this amazing ocarina many thanks to ocarina diva |
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| Moonsyne | Mar 8 2010, 02:33 AM Post #2 |
☆ Luminary ☆
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The big ol' logo reminds me of half a Mcdonald's arch. Ugly! Spoiler: click to toggle
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| ocarina begginer | Mar 8 2010, 02:38 AM Post #3 |
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lover of the plastic ocarina
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i just got amazed for the idea of an "unbreakable" plastic triple ocarina  but i discovered that the brand of the ocarina isnt other than STL , and when i think on this my head start's to fill with ugly tough's like: "what if is made of ugly-cheap plastic?"  "the subholes are really close or it's my imagination?"  "what if isnt enough ticker to resist a big impact, making the ocarina into a breakable one,when it is supousse that isnt it?"  "what if it gonna cost a lot of money, making it just a dream?"  and a lot of stuff like that, well , only time will say it , "ISNT A GOOD IDEA THAT STL MAKE THEIR OWN OCARINA'S?" JAJAJA LOL yeah that's rigth, i dont like much the colors but ,if it is a good quality one , no matter what im gonna get it , but from ebay if i can 
Edited by ocarina begginer, Mar 8 2010, 02:45 AM.
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| kissing | Mar 8 2010, 02:50 AM Post #4 |
there is always time for a song
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Lol, a triple plastic ocarina is pretty exciting. I sometimes wonder whether STL gets some of their ideas from spying on TON. Numerous talks of plastic triple ocarinas occured in TON... and voila! Even their "DIY" paint ocarina. I'm sure that was mentioned by someone on TON when the guy from the vinyl company said that his company makes paintable vinyl dolls  |
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| hylandude123456789 | Mar 8 2010, 03:12 AM Post #5 |
It's hylandude!
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It really sounds good but... it's an STL and STL has it's rep... i'll wait until someone on TON makes a review about it, and after a new one with different colors and without the logo comes out
Edited by hylandude123456789, Mar 8 2010, 03:19 AM.
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| Kiniko | Mar 8 2010, 03:15 AM Post #6 |
<3 Lolicon
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and other places... *coughdoublependantcough* |
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| zee | Mar 8 2010, 03:20 AM Post #7 |
Inliner x 4
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I'm pretty surprised with this. I expected it to sound much squeakier (not because its STL, but it's a plastic with THREE chambers). But then again ocarinadiva is a an awesome ocarina player, and it would sound entirely different with someone like me playing it. |
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| GabeGT | Mar 8 2010, 04:02 AM Post #8 |
Intermediate
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Unbreakable triple. It's like a dream come true for some people. I don't think the sound quality is to bad, even for STL. Everyone knows they make pretty decent plastic ocs. And from the video Diva made. It doesn't sound half bad. |
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| Bateleur | Mar 8 2010, 04:21 AM Post #9 |
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
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There has been clamoring about multichambered plastic ocarinas from customers on the STL Forum almost since the place began. I think it's less "spying" and more listening to their customers who have something to say. |
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| Skye | Mar 8 2010, 04:37 AM Post #10 |
Do what you will...
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GIB IT NOW PLS XD I want a triple and I think i'll buy this if it doesnt cost TOO much. |
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| Ōgami Ittō | Mar 8 2010, 05:08 AM Post #11 |
Spanish Bombs
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Why is there always a guest/anonymous on a STL topic  Anyways, the problem I see with this is condensation. It affects all plastics, and taking into account how small the second/third chamber of the triple is surely it'd affect the sound quality alot sooner than a 12 hole for instance. Plus the whole point of getting a triple was to get an awesome instrument which is actually WORTH spending some money. Why get a plastic one? People have said it's good to have a more durable one but c'mon, it's not like you're trying to play tennis with it! You should eb careful with your ocarinas, or any instrument for that manner, anyways. |
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| Pen_Anima | Mar 8 2010, 05:18 AM Post #12 |
Let me fill the world with art . . . And I shall give you treasures
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WHo says I can't play tennis with my ocarina?! lmao. |
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| flip | Mar 8 2010, 06:20 AM Post #13 |
"the switch"
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It's Granny...she's helping Santa out for next Christmas... Spoiler: click to toggle Seriously though...I have been waiting for a plastic triple for some time and will definitely have to give this one a try.
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| ivanduzer | Mar 8 2010, 06:28 AM Post #14 |
Exit, Pursued By a Bear.
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I think the biggest appeal of a plastic triple is the idea that it will be a lot cheaper than a ceramic one. Not so much that it's durable, although that'll play a sizable factor as well. |
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| Crowler | Mar 8 2010, 12:59 PM Post #15 |
emergency medical hologram
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I'm kind of with Ogami on this, especially on the condensation part. I'd like it because it's so awful, but I'm not keen on the tone from OD's video, and I'm especially worried about the condensation. I'd also rather be getting a nice triple than a plastic one. A double would suit most people, and if not they could manage by missing a few songs from their repertoire. As I said with the MaxRange, a fair part of what you pay for is in the prestige of owning a triple. If you're triple is plastic, bright purple and keeps getting blocked up, you're kind of losing pretty much all of the 'professional' look. |
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| GabeGT | Mar 8 2010, 03:36 PM Post #16 |
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Intermediate
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I guess I agree with the comments above. I mean buying a triple ocarina should be basically, a trophy, of how far you have come as an ocarina player. Saying that, a plastic alternative is always good to have at hand. You might even buy this triple just to see if a triple is right for you. I mean paying $300+ for a triple is a really big step. One that many might feel intimidated taking. |
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| Moonsyne | Mar 8 2010, 05:44 PM Post #17 |
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☆ Luminary ☆
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I guess it will all depend on the price as to if people will buy it. It needs to be low enough to overcome it's obvious shortcomings. |
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| GabeGT | Mar 8 2010, 05:52 PM Post #18 |
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Intermediate
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Then we have to wait till it goes on sale, unless someone knows the price of it. |
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| Ōgami Ittō | Mar 8 2010, 05:56 PM Post #19 |
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Spanish Bombs
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While that is true, most people go from a single to a double, to extend their range, and to get comfortable with multi-chambered oc's. Then naturally they progress to a triple for the next step up in range and performance. I kinda see it as going from a tricycle, to a bike with stabilisers, to a mountain bike or w/e you had next. Steady progression as you learn. Ultimately jumping form a single to a triple may just put people off, as all the holes/the chamber switching may be too overwhelming. And then they've wasted ALL the money on that triple, instead of having 3 nice ocarinas, maybe by different brands, with different ranges and sounds (e.g single Noble, Double Maparam, Triple Focalink) Plus triples are supposed to be prestigious, they're gonna bet the most expensive item in your ocarina collection, wouldn't you rather have something awesome looking instead of something that looks like a cheap toy/cigarette holder? Urgh, i'm finding it really hard to get down what i'm trying to say here haha, hopefully it makes sense! |
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| sirhalos | Mar 8 2010, 05:59 PM Post #20 |
 
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Can't we start guessing at the price? It could be a game... I'm guessing $140-180 though I wish it would be in the $60-$80 range but I highly doubt it. |
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| Ōgami Ittō | Mar 8 2010, 06:05 PM Post #21 |
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Spanish Bombs
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I reckon about $200, I mean the double is about $120 so they won't sell it cheaper than that, that's for sure... |
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| ubizmo | Mar 8 2010, 06:40 PM Post #22 |
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The effect of condensation on sound is caused by the presence of water droplets in the windway. Condensation anywhere else is irrelevant. The narrower the windway, regardless of the material used, the more quickly the effects of condensation will become audible. This shouldn't be a big issue, if the player simply remembers to suck out the moisture in between songs. The premise that clay ocarinas inherently sound better than plastic is, in my opinion, unproven until someone conducts a proper experiment. That would involve having a skilled player playing the same melody on several ocarinas of similar style and range, one of which is plastic. The player should have had time to learn to play each of the ocarinas well enough to be past the "getting used to it" stage. The melody should use most of the range of the instrument, and should have slow and fast passages. Then, knowledgeable listeners should act as "judges" and try to pick out the plastic by sound alone. There should be enough judges to get a proper distribution. If there are four different ocarinas, random choice would get the plastic 25% of the time, but if there were only a dozen judges, chance could easily skew the results. Somebody with more statistical knowledge than I have could figure out how many judges would be needed to have confidence in the results. Finally, it would be crucial to have very high quality sound recordings, all done with the same equipment and in the same setting, of course. I've looked at plenty of YouTube videos of people playing triples. In my opinion, the sound of this STL plastic triple is not different from the others I've heard in some way that cries out "plastic." In fact, I'd say the same about the better quality plastic singles. I think there's a general anti-plastic bias, so when people watch these videos, they hear some difference or other, the confirmation bias kicks in, and they interpret what they hear as "inferior." In fact, I think that even the player is susceptible to the same confirmation bias. If you own one or more expensive clay ocarinas, the "sunk cost" effect will predispose you to hear some aspect of the plastic that isn't as good. I've done this myself with my MOs. I want to believe that my more expensive ones "sound better" than the poly, and I've even stated that there is a "subtle" difference. In fact, the difference is so subtle, it's probably imaginary. I've done the sound experiment on myself, and I can't pick out which is the poly even when I played the samples. I'd be willing to bet that if we were able to do an experiment like this, we'd find that the better quality plastics don't get chosen any more often than chance would predict. By "better quality" I mean the Noble, Solist, Zin, STL, and Yea Sung plastics. They seem to be made with enough precision and quality control to count as real ocarinas, not toys. In the case of the STL triple, I have the sense that it's a new product, so Ocarinadiva couldn't have had that much time to get used to it. In addition, she's playing a piece that's pretty demanding, in terms of fingering and complexity, and it involves a lot of notes of short duration. The quality of the recording is pretty good. I think that, if she had uploaded just the audio, with just a still picture of the Handel score or something, and a note saying "played on triple ocarina", no one would be posting here that it sounds like plastic. Ubizmo |
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| Krešimir Cindrić | Mar 8 2010, 08:16 PM Post #23 |
In love with Ocarina di Budrio
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There is a lot of truth in these words, Ubizmo. A relatively well known result in physics of music instruments is how material of wind instruments affects the sound. In small wind instruments (those smaller in length than 1 m) the timbre of the sound should be pretty much identical (differing much less than 1%) given the assumption that the shape of the instruments is identical. This has been proven on flutes made of various metals, such as gold, silver, tin, copper, various alloys and even cardboard. There was even an auditory test such as the one Ubizmo suggested, where several identical flute designs but from different materials were tested. Experienced flutists had a lot of difficulty in saying which flute was made of gold and which was made of cardboard (assuming the same player played them - different players produce very different sound quality). However, this was a "laboratory controlled" experiment where special care was taken that the instruments in question were specifically made to sound the same. In real life, material has a great impact on the quality of music instruments, mainly because a) some materials are easier to work with and can be modeled/drilled into specific geometries and b) some materials are more expensive and have a more prestigious value (such as golden or platinum concert flutes) and instrument makers take greater care and effort into making instruments from such materials. Various plastics are materials that are cheap and easily mass produced by automated machines. Plastic is considered "unromantic" and plastic instruments are perceived as something of low value - not only by players, but also by most makers. And in most cases they are, because not a lot of care and effort was invested in their making. And making of high quality music instruments usually has a long tradition, much longer than the relatively short existence of plastics and other synthetic materials. That is the main reason why there no plastic violins, cellos or almost any other "serious" music instrument. I think the same reasoning applies to ocarinas. Although the history of our beloved instrument is relatively short and there were numerous improvements and new features in their design, even in recent times, the basic method of making ocarinas hasn't changed very much since Donati and Vicinelli. There is a general opinion that most plastic ocarinas are nothing more than toys and it's hard to move past that. But the situation is improving in recent times, since there is an increasing number of high quality plastic ocarinas. This STL triple is definitely one of them - I too agree that it's almost impossible to tell it's made from plastic by only hearing that recording. But even though, plastic ocarinas have many obvious advantages - they are more durable, cheaper and have a smaller weight and there are cases in which they sound almost (or just) as good as clay ocarinas, I would still prefer clay - if only because of the traditional, romantic value associated with the most natural material for ocarinas, which was used for thousands of years before the invention of plastics. I like the following, poetic though about ocarinas: The ocarina is an instrument in which all four classical elements are combined: earth - from which it was made, water - which gave it shape, fire - in which it was baked and air - which makes it sing. Obviously, I can't say that for plastic ocarinas and they will always be inferior to me - even if advancing technology can give them the best sound - I don't think it can give them soul that some clay ocarinas have. Edited by Krešimir Cindrić, Mar 8 2010, 08:20 PM.
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| KypSyd | Mar 8 2010, 11:15 PM Post #24 |
KypSyd
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I give credit where its due and they definitely deserve it for this one. Even though I have a tendency to dislike STL for all the negative comments I have heard about them from MANY customers, I have to admit that this is kinda awesome! A plastic triple that actually sounds good. I have a 10 hole plastic ocarina (my very first) that sounds much airier. Whether I would buy one or not is a different story but kudos to STL on this one |
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| ocarina begginer | Mar 9 2010, 12:53 AM Post #25 |
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lover of the plastic ocarina
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yeah , why there isnt a double plastic one? |
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| ubizmo | Mar 9 2010, 01:03 AM Post #26 |
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Yes, that's a very interesting study, and decisive, in my opinion. I'd add that different materials are more likely to matter in reed instruments, although even there it's the composition and design of the mouthpiece that matters most. Still, in reed instruments, the vibrating reed is the source of the sound, and it is firmly attached to the instrument, so the instrument itself inevitably vibrates to a significant extent, and that makes more of a contribution to the sound you hear. But in the case of reed instruments, it's probably the thickness of the metal that matters most, rather than the alloy used. Cheaper horns use thinner metal; that's one of the ways to cut the cost. In the case of ocarinas and flutes, the sound is produced entirely by a body of vibrating air. The instrument itself is merely a container for that vibrating air. That's why the material doesn't matter much, although the texture of the interior has an effect (just as the texture of walls affects the acoustics in a room).
That's a very good point, although I would point out that clay is not an expensive material, and it is also not a "precise" material, i.e., capable of being worked to extremely fine tolerances.
Also a good point, but I think the reality is more complicated. Although plastic is often used to make inferior versions of things that work better if made of something else, there are some cases in which plastic is actually superior. Plastic can be worked to higher standards of precision than clay. But here's the thing about plastic manufacturing: It's all about quality control and testing. Molds "fatigue" and have to be replaced. There are many variables that can affect the end product, and there's generally a fair amount of post-molding hand work that goes into the process. For precision plastic manufacturing, a lot of pieces have to be discarded, because they're not quite up to standards. That increases the cost. In the world of tin whistles, the cheaper ones are the Feadogs and Waltons and Acorns. But their cheapness has a lot to do with the variability of the molded plastic mouthpieces. There are some really good ones, and some poor ones, and for $10 or so, you take your chances. Or you pay a bit more and get a Dixon, which also has a plastic mouthpiece, but the quality is consistently high. I don't have enough experience with plastic ocarinas to know whether some makes are more consistent than others, but I do know that if the will to do it is there, they can be made to a very high standard. When talking about string instruments like violin and guitar, the material matters much more, because the sound box itself must resonate, not just the air inside it.
I appreciate that view, although I tend to be more pragmatic, and even iconoclastic, about such things. The romance of tradition has very little hold on me. And I believe that the "soul" of an instrument is all about what the player puts into it. Sidney Bechet, one of my favorite musicians of all time, played a pretty crappy soprano sax, by today's standards, but I don't think anyone has really come close to his sound. (Petite Fleur--still gives me chills to listen to it) I'd only add that the visual and tactile aesthetic elements of an instrument do matter to me as well. But plastic ocarinas don't have to be ugly, and there are certainly ugly clay ones. One of the reasons why I like the aluminum MO that I've been playing is that I like the heft of it in my hand. The weight of an ocarina is a matter of very individual taste, but I imagine that most clay ocarinas are heavier than most plastics, and for some that could be an advantage in playability. Ubizmo |
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| ocarina begginer | Mar 9 2010, 01:26 AM Post #27 |
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lover of the plastic ocarina
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you got a very romantic way to think , but also youre an advanced player,and a begginer player like me preffers the plastic for two reasons ,it's a cheap ocarina and can be easily replaced and it's virtually unbrakeable. you're right , this ocs have no soul , but it's a perfect way to start to play. |
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| markal363 | Mar 9 2010, 07:02 AM Post #28 |
A Woodwind Doubler
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Materials are a very interesting subject when it comes to instruments. Albert Cooper, who basically revamped the modern flute scale, is said to have invited several of his flute playing friends over to his house one evening to try out a new headjoint he had just made. After each player tried it he asked what they thought the headjoint was made of. He got answers everywhere from platinum alloy, gold alloy, and certain percentages of this, that, and everything else. He then announced this brand new flute headjoint was made from an old melted down sauce pan from his kitchen. According to Cooper, it's not the material but the skill, care and artistry of the maker that makes the difference. Sir James Galway has even said that with all the albums he has recorded, he doesn't know (from listening) which ones he recorded with silver, gold, or platinum flutes. Very interesting indeed. But I agree with kcindric that double blind tests give the most definitive answers regarding sound properties. Edited by markal363, Mar 9 2010, 07:07 AM.
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| Moonsyne | Mar 9 2010, 09:39 AM Post #29 |
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☆ Luminary ☆
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That sounds about right. I borrowed a vintage Gretch plastic awhile back. When compared with my 1st notes, they all looked like they came from the same mold; down to the stamping. While the plastics were similar, the vintage sounded so much better. The big difference was not the quality of plastic, but the small touches of finishing work. The newer model seemed to have none at all. |
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| Crowler | Mar 9 2010, 11:27 AM Post #30 |
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emergency medical hologram
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I think it's partly down to the same reasons as why nobody made a plastic triple before, and after it's released I would not be surprised if very few people bought the plastic triple.
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| speckles | Mar 9 2010, 11:42 AM Post #31 |
I’ve been hypnotized
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I, for one, can't fully assess the sound quality of an ocarina unless it us played by itself. Any other instruments will obscure possible airiness or shrillness. |
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| GabeGT | Mar 9 2010, 06:10 PM Post #32 |
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Intermediate
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I agree with Crowler. The price will be a huge factor in the success of this ocarina. If it's going to be over the $100 mark, then most people would opt saving up an additional $18 and get a focalink double. In my case, I wouldn't even think about buying it at that price, however, if it was around the $50 mark, the thought would cross my mind. |
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| Kalasinar | Mar 9 2010, 07:52 PM Post #33 |
Colour-Blind Hedgehog of Great Britain
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Apart from the horrible gaudy logo, it actually looks pretty neat...and i'd be tempted to buy one if it wasn't too expensive. However, i'm not expecting it to be reasonably priced (especially with shipping on top of it), and even though this would be an answer to my phobia of taking ceramic ocarinas on planes, the condensation build up would be annoying. It is bad enough with my Zin and Focalink plastic ocarinas... If they did this ocarina in green though...i'd be so tempted... I think it sounds alright, but no offense to Diva (who played that piece wonderfully), i'd like to see more examples of it being played by different people, without any backtracks to get in the way of the ocarina's sound (as Speckles rightly pointed out) Edited by Kalasinar, Mar 9 2010, 07:55 PM.
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| Pen_Anima | Mar 9 2010, 09:05 PM Post #34 |
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Let me fill the world with art . . . And I shall give you treasures
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Hmm . .. not so sure that wuold be unreasonable. Remember, the ZIn bass c alone was 86 dollars *even though I'm selling it at a cheaper price on my yard sale in the market thread* Cough The zin is good, great even, and hmm . .. . I would say the HIGHESt reasonable price would be 118. 
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| viperdvman | Mar 10 2010, 11:02 AM Post #35 |
Fledgling Ocarinist
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I'm certainly psyched about a plastic triple ocarina. But I already have a ceramic double that I very much enjoy playing. Then again, I wouldn't mind paying $70 - $100 for a plastic triple. Sure, it's cheap of me to go with plastic when moving up to a triple, but at least it'd be excellent for practicing a triple with. Then again, for 12-holes, I'd gladly add a plastic or two to my collection, especially that Zin plastic Bass C. Then again, I'd only take that Zin plastic Bass C just to have a bass in my collection, and it's the cheaper yet still very well-made option. Plus, it wouldn't be my primary ocarina. However, a triple often ends up being someone's primary ocarina. This is just me, but if I get a plastic triple, I would also want a clay version (most likely a Focalink) to be my primary ocarina. The plastic would simply be for introducing me to a triple, and taking outdoors to practice. I'd use the primary clay triple for playing around people, and other casual performances. Overall, I love the idea of a plastic triple ocarina. It'll likely get more people into trying out triple ocarinas who would otherwise be turned away by the price of a good clay triple. On top of that, it could get more people into getting the higher-quality clay triples too. And despite some of the bad opinions against STL, they do make some high-quality plastics, right up there with Zin, Noble, and MO. I might get me one if the price isn't too steep. But I still want a Focalink Double SG 
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| Krešimir Cindrić | Mar 10 2010, 12:57 PM Post #36 |
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In love with Ocarina di Budrio
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I bet it's gonna be more than $100... |
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| Kiniko | Mar 10 2010, 01:14 PM Post #37 |
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<3 Lolicon
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But, no matter how high it is, it's going to be on sale from some imaginary price that they pulled out of their ass 
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| Walden | Mar 10 2010, 01:37 PM Post #38 |
An humble ocarina-player.
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Quit speculating these higher prices! I want one cheap!
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| kissing | Mar 11 2010, 03:05 AM Post #39 |
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there is always time for a song
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The ZINs are made of an expensive plastic called polyurethane. That's one of the reasons behind their cost. As for this STL Triple. Sadly I think that even if it is price above $100, there will be crowds of newbe's who will jump to buy it "OMGZ A CHEAP TRIPLE OCARINA IF I HAVE ONE I'LL BE LIKE A PRO". And well as long as its much cheaper than a proper clay triple ocarina, people will get it. I guess it's not necessarily a bad thing. People will get what they pay for  On the one hand, it's a cheap way to spread triple ocarinas, which is good. On the other hand, it takes away some of the prestige of having mastered the ocarina enough to committ to a triple, and getting a premium instrument. All of this also depends on the quality of the ocarina itself. It would be interesting to see reviews by critical members who also own other triples. I like the idea of an affordable plastic triple.. but just wish it was made by a more reliable company.. STL spy, if you're reading this, I won't say no to testing one out for free
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| Pen_Anima | Mar 11 2010, 04:58 AM Post #40 |
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Let me fill the world with art . . . And I shall give you treasures
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8D sam .. . oh you Pft. 8D I say networking!  One should buy it and mail it around to three others to see their own reviews of it. About a month a time between memebers and then mass review! 8D
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| hirohiigo | Mar 11 2010, 05:15 AM Post #41 |
Ocarinist x 3
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If it's cheap enough, I'll get one. I don't care about getting a triple for the prestige. I just want an extended range. I know I thoroughly hate STL, but this might be my exception where I go ahead and buy something from them again. |
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| atkeane | Mar 12 2010, 08:28 AM Post #42 |
Uber Ocarinist X 2
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I don't know whether I would actually pick one of these up... the only actual overlap in range on my ocarinas is that I own a single, a double, and a triple in AC. Of course even then, all these are from different makers and have different timbres. That being said, I still think that the plastic triple is pretty awesome, I can't wait to see if more songs are done on it before its release. |
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| speckles | Mar 12 2010, 09:40 AM Post #43 |
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I’ve been hypnotized
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If it gets good reviews from fellow TONians, I'll probably get one. I hope they come out with one made of transparent plastic. That would be interesting! |
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| ocarina begginer | Mar 13 2010, 04:04 PM Post #44 |
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lover of the plastic ocarina
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but are the fellowTONians disposed to review this item? there are a few , that are saying that they want one,and no matter how they put it , they gonna need to expend some money to bring us a decent review of this ocarina( ).the question is ... WHO'S GONNA DO THE SACRIFICE? |
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| kissing | Mar 13 2010, 05:26 PM Post #45 |
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there is always time for a song
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Lol, I guess a bunch of you can chip in.. like $10 each or something, depending on how many participate. When everyone's tried it out for the designated periods of time, you can make it into a game of luck on who ends up getting to own it. Like getting a trusted non-participant member to pull a name out of a hat randomly. Or perhaps even make it a prize for a contest
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2:27 PM Jul 31
