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Ocarina Glossary part.1 - Ocarina Types; Various common ocarina shapes
Topic Started: 14 Feb 2010, 10:01 PM (17,716 Views)
Crowler
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emergency medical hologram
Hans Rotter and Gosselink make ocarinas that are kind of Peruvian-esque. They're seven-hole 'pendants', and they use a linear fingering. What I think 'Poltergeist and myself where saying before was not trying to explain that they were sculptural ocarinas and should have their own section for that reason, but instead that they are linear pendants.
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Poltergeist
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Pink Elephant on Parade

I'm not sure if they are "pendants", before anybody has given me a good definition of what a pendant is. But the fingering system they use seems linear to me. And I don't think that there is a relation between these ocarinas ant the "peruvians". (Definition of a "peruvian"? Please?) The fingering is that of a tin whistle or any other 6 hole flute, with the seventh hole of the ocarina substituting the overblowing of the flute.


Also I believe that a glossary needs more than pictograms that function on an intuitive, non-verbal level. A glossary needs clear, verbal definitions. And I'm not sure whether it is possible to give a good definition that clearly separates "transverse" and "inline" as implied by the pictures in the table. For example: as I said above, the song flute is "inline", but it has the same fingering system as a 10 hole "transverse".

We really should make two or even three different sets of categories: fingering system, form and possibly the angle at which it is played.
For example you could categorize the Zelda-ocarinas from ClayZ as 1. four hole cross fingering, 2. round and short sweet potato shape and 3. sharp left transverse.
The Songbird OoT could be 1. 12 hole Japanese inline fingering, 2. round, long sweet potato shape and 3. sharp right transverse.

Since both the form of the vessel and the angle at which it is played seem to be important variables for the sound of the instrument, and the fingering is not, that makes a lot of sense to me.
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ubizmo


What's the purpose of this chart, anyway?

Terms such as "inline" (I) and "transverse" (T) mark structural categories.

"Extended range" (E) and "harmony" (H) are functional categories.

"Linear" (L) and "cross-fingered" (C) are, obviously, types of fingerings.

This makes possible twelve different kinds of ocarinas: IL, IC, TL, TC, (singles) IEL, IEC, IHL, IHC, TEL, TEC, THL, THC (multiple chambers). Some of them may not exist yet, or may never exist. In addition, there are always going to be boundary cases, where it's just not clear which classification to use. A reasonable definition of "inline" is that the windway is in line with the tone holes, or the main axis of tone holes, but many extended range doubles don't quite fit into this scheme. The second chamber of the extended range double is often inline, and the first chamber is almost so. That is, the axis of the first chamber is closer to parallel to the windway than it is to perpendicular. You'd have to call these "quasi-inline" or, for that matter, "quasi-transverse." As newer ocarinas are designed that are less stereotyped in structure, I think the terms "inline" and "transverse" are less and less useful. Is the "Destiny" IL or TL? What about the "Spearhead" and "Dragon Tooth"?

Strictly speaking, the typical 12-hole fingering is very imperfectly linear, since the sub-holes break the linear pattern, and the anchored left pinky makes notes above G (on a C single) effectively cross-fingered. But it's mostly linear, and that should be close enough. I suppose the 9-hole ocarinas are the purest examples of linear fingering.

Most of the English pendant ocarinas appear to be as inline as any MO or Hind. That is, the tone holes are in line with the windway, in parallel rows. They would have to be considered IC ocarinas. But I guess the OOT replica is a TC, no?

Ubizmo
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OcLover
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Triple Ocarinist
OcLover
15 Feb 2010, 12:58 AM
Pendant: A small ocarina which is meant to be worn on a necklace.

Transverse: An ocarina with a mouthpiece which is or is nearly perpendicular to the main body of the ocarina, such that a players breath is blown across the width of the ocarina. Some modern day ocarinas may have a mouthpiece which is extremely angled up to 45 degrees, but are still considered a transverse ocarina.

Edit: Example would be a transverse flute.

Inline: An ocarina with a mouthpiece which is parallel or inline with the main body of the ocarina, such that a players breath is blown along the length of the ocarina.

Edit: Example would be an end-blown flute. Maybe the name "End-blown" would be better than Inline, but the manufacturers won't be changing their names / designations any time soon.

Is there something wrong with these basic definitions? They do not mention fingering styles, as many fingering styles are used for any of these basic types. Just because I offer these definitions, they are not set in stone, but I do believe they describe these three basic types accurately. By changing or even eliminating certain types like 'pendant', it would only cause confusion for TON members. Besides, the main stream ocarina manufacturers categorize many of their ocarinas by these basic types and I think they will not be dropping these type names any time soon.
I'm quoting myself from earlier in this discussion.

As far as 'pendant' is concerned, every online dictionary and real dictionary I've looked up pendant in basically defines a pendant as something meant to wear around a neck suspended from some form of necklace. As applied to the ocarina and as generally understood by most people the definition I provided fully describes a pendant ocarina.

I think the other definitions will stand up under scrutiny as well.

Which would mean ocarinas like the Songbird Dragon Tooth, STL Destiny and Spearhead would be inline ocarinas.

On the issue of 'Peruvian'. It is a name given to ocarinas generally made in South America (especially Peru), regardless of the actually shape, but generally in the shape of an oblong turtle shell. There is a general negativity to these types of ocarinas in the ocarina community. Mainly because: A.) These ocarinas are found to be out of tune according to western musical sensitivity. B.) These ocarinas sometimes exhibit faultiness in design to the point that no sound can be played or extreme airiness while producing sound.

Heck, just to be fair to the 'Peruvian' ocarina, why don't we just call all ocarinas by the name of the country that produced them. Is there some ocarina bigotry going on here?

Edited by OcLover, 16 Feb 2010, 06:19 PM.
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Poltergeist
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Pink Elephant on Parade

"Pendant" is most often used in a different sense, meaning pretty much any ocarina with the English cross fingering system.
But I agree with your definition. Although it is relative, too. A picture of Hans Rotter comes to my mind each time I hear the word "pendant":

The pendant for the REAL man

;)
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OcLover
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Triple Ocarinist
I suppose it depends on the size of your neck! LOL. One other thing, as far as that goes, I suppose one could drill a hole through a bowling ball, put a rope through and suspend it around their neck and say they were wearing a pendant. I guess it's all relative.
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ubizmo


I wear a Mountain G on a neck strap pretty much all day, every day. That would appear to qualify it as a pendant. It's no larger than some other pendant ocarinas.

The fact is, as a classification of musical instruments, "pendant" ocarina is no more useful than "pocket" ocarina.

Ubizmo
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Krešimir Cindrić


What Ubizmo said. I agree completely. The term "pendant" is useless for such classifications. However, I still think that fingering system is the most simple and fundamental basis for such a classification system.
Edited by Krešimir Cindrić, 17 Feb 2010, 12:47 AM.
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OcLover
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Triple Ocarinist
Ubi, what you say about "pendant" and "pocket" is true, but it would be interesting to know the history behind the naming schemes in the first place. Were the names given / coined by influential people in the ocarina industry (as small as it is)? Would it be sacrilegious to the history of the ocarina to drop a name given by one of the innovators? I wonder if John Taylor actually came up with the name English Pendant, or was it someone who worked very closely with Mr. Taylor like Barry Jennings who coined the phrase?

I think it would be great if we could get some insight from people who had worked with or learned from Mr. Taylor and Mr. Jennings on the origins of "English Pendant", which (I'm guessing) got shortened to "pendant" at some point.
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AspieMum
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Beginner Double Ocarinist
What type of ocarina do the multi-chamber ocarinas fall into? Or are Doubles and Triples a separate type?
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Stephen Bobchin
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AspieMum
26 Jul 2015, 03:28 AM
What type of ocarina do the multi-chamber ocarinas fall into? Or are Doubles and Triples a separate type?
Transverse
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Dries
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Crowler
16 Feb 2010, 11:54 AM
Hans Rotter and Gosselink make ocarinas that are kind of Peruvian-esque. They're seven-hole 'pendants', and they use a linear fingering. What I think 'Poltergeist and myself where saying before was not trying to explain that they were sculptural ocarinas and should have their own section for that reason, but instead that they are linear pendants.
aren't those peruvian flutes technically not an ocarina.
Isn't anything invented after the first ones in budrio a ocarina.
Everything before that is just a vessel flute not?


Dries
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Claytone
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Quote:
 
Isn't anything invented after the first ones in budrio a ocarina.
Everything before that is just a vessel flute not?
Who has the normative power in the nerdy world of organology? (Does anyone remember Ryan O'Neal in "What's up, Doc?")
I don't know but according to what I have learnt any vessel flute with windway and voicing is an ocarina.
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Stephen Bobchin
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Dries
26 Jul 2015, 08:17 AM
Crowler
16 Feb 2010, 11:54 AM
Hans Rotter and Gosselink make ocarinas that are kind of Peruvian-esque. They're seven-hole 'pendants', and they use a linear fingering. What I think 'Poltergeist and myself where saying before was not trying to explain that they were sculptural ocarinas and should have their own section for that reason, but instead that they are linear pendants.
aren't those peruvian flutes technically not an ocarina.
Isn't anything invented after the first ones in budrio a ocarina.
Everything before that is just a vessel flute not?


Dries
False, any vessel fkute with a windway is considered an ocarina. If it doesn't have a windway, it is a xun. This is all per the Sachs-Hornbostel classification system.
Edited by Stephen Bobchin, 26 Jul 2015, 11:04 AM.
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