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| Chen Ching Ocarinas | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 4 2010, 04:26 AM (3,341 Views) | |
| Panch | Jan 21 2010, 03:49 AM Post #91 |
The Whistlemaker
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Considering most triple's pricetags of between $300 and $500, I'll just make an educated guess that those originals would have gone for roughly that amount... That triple went for almost $3000... if it was bought at original price, the poor guy paid over two grand for glazing alone. Nice one, STL! 
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| kyleismr.smiley | Jan 21 2010, 06:36 AM Post #92 |
<(*~*)>
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I could understand this being like oh, Maparam or Focalinks very first successful triple ocarina that the rest followed suit in . . . or one of your first Panch, after you become even more famous for your ocs when you release them for marketing. 
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| Ocarinadiva | Jan 22 2010, 12:43 AM Post #93 |
www.crisgale.com
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I thought I'd let everyone know what's happened regarding the Chen Ching triple: Firstly, I'd like to note that STL immediately offered a refund but I decided to keep the ocarina regardless of its origin. The characteristics of the ocarina did not somehow change and I'm still quite happy with it despite the controversy. Alright, so here goes: My husband contacted STL regarding the triple and asked that Chen Ching be contacted to verify that Chen Ching is the maker of the ocarina. He received a response back and was told that they'd look into it and that whatever the outcome of the investigation, if he wasn't happy with the ocarina for any reason, they'd pay for return shipping and give a full refund. They assured him that it was made by Chen Ching but said they would contact him to confirm it. So STL called Chen Ching and discovered that the original form of the ocarina was not made by him. STL was under the impression that all of the Chen Chings were made solely by him from scratch and this was news to them. Apparently there was a miscommunication between STL and Chen Ching. Chen Ching still considers the ocarina his work but apologized for any misunderstandings. He also insisted on sending me one of his most recent works. So that's it. STL offered a refund but I didn't take it and Chen Ching, with apologies, insisted on sending me an ocarina. |
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| Veld | Jan 22 2010, 01:01 AM Post #94 |
Musicophilia
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Well, at least you'll have another beautiful ocarina  (unless he sends you one of those poo... magma ocarina, that is).
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| kyleismr.smiley | Jan 22 2010, 01:05 AM Post #95 |
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<(*~*)>
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For that price I'm glad he feels obligated to throw in a "freebie" maybe he's not such a bad guy after all.
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| zombiefewd1 | Jan 22 2010, 01:09 AM Post #96 |
Ocarina maker
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That was uncalled and completely unnecessary. And in my opinion they dont look like poo they look like magma.
That was exactly my prediction. It was just a misunderstanding. So he insisted on sending you an ocarina thats awesome! |
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| Uronoro | Jan 22 2010, 01:25 AM Post #97 |
Where Have You Sinners Gone?
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Have you honestly hung around this long and have not heard anyone say they looked like that? Though my only tick with those is that it's said they were inspired by 'modern art', which is such a broad term that I kind of wanted to hit the sentence with a stick, and that I don't really see the connection. Maybe he was looking for Post-modern or Contemporary. Or Dadaism 
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| shirf02 | Jan 22 2010, 01:48 AM Post #98 |
Enjoys the Disney Renaissance
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Can't say I expected that. Certainly was good customer service to offer a refund though (+1 for them). Even better that Chen Ching sent a freebie. |
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| Veld | Jan 22 2010, 02:01 AM Post #99 |
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Musicophilia
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I am terribly sorry for such a childish comment. You are right when you say, in your opinion, that they look like magma; I am not when I say they seem crap to me. It was uncalled and completely unnecessary. They indeed do look like volcano's excrements!-Pedro On topic: While it is reasonable to send a gift as an apology for the 'misunderstanding', it should not be forgotten that he is still selling other people's ocarinas without their consent (I am referring to the ocarinas made by Zack's friend). It's basically $2500 for a paint job. Edited by Veld, Jan 22 2010, 02:05 AM.
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| Uronoro | Jan 22 2010, 02:16 AM Post #100 |
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Where Have You Sinners Gone?
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That does actually sound sound like a good deal to me. I'm kinda jealous, Chen Ching freebies! |
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| Nixie | Jan 22 2010, 02:34 AM Post #101 |
Ocarinist x 4
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Yeah, Its a bit off that it isnt his work (I would be a bit sore, or rather my wallet would...) but a freebie of his *new* work is definitely a bonus. Be sure to show us all when it arrives?!! |
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| kyleismr.smiley | Jan 22 2010, 02:41 AM Post #102 |
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<(*~*)>
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Agh, why can't we just all take a joke and laugh. Chen Ching ocarinas are supposed to be "art" ocarinas. Part of art is multiple views of the same thing, also some people find the same art beautiful that others thing is butt ugly. 1.) I think the magma oc resembles poop, 2.)Docjazz thinks maparam single chambered ocarinas look like . . . well . . . look at this diagram: Spoiler: click to toggle and 3.). . . well I lost my train of thought, it'll come to me later. Just like when I said people that get Stl ocarinas, songbird ocarinas, or ebay ocarinas to start with are "n00bs", some people take offense to that and others are like . . . well yeah I'm a n00b and I do that. Or I did that when I was a n00b to ocarinas. Heck I'm still a n00b to ocarinas, and some people still think magma looks beautiful and or like poop. |
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| hirohiigo | Jan 22 2010, 02:46 AM Post #103 |
Ocarinist x 3
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A good business decision by STL?  I'm shocked... and pleased. Looks like they're finally taking a step in the right direction.
Why are you so offended by something someone says about an ocarina?  If someone thinks it looks like poo then they think it looks like poo.
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| ivanduzer | Jan 22 2010, 04:11 AM Post #104 |
Exit, Pursued By a Bear.
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Everyone should be allowed to think what they want when it comes to art. I mean, look at this painting: Spoiler: click to toggle When my teacher showed us this painting in class, half my classmates were enraged at the fact that this is called "art." I on the other hand, really like Rothko's style of painting. I find it soothing and emotional, they saw it as two poorly drawn rectangles. I guess what I'm saying is to each his own. That's what makes art so cool. On Topic: As a pottery artist, I really admire Chen Ching's glazes. I especially ones with This or This style of glazing. I'm really curious to find our how he does it. If they were in my price range, I'd snap one up in an instant, especially the second one; I like how the gold kind of fades into the blue. |
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| Panch | Jan 22 2010, 04:22 AM Post #105 |
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The Whistlemaker
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Well this certainly is a nice surprise! Perhaps I should contact STL and show them one more ocarina which I know for a fact to not be Chen Ching's original design... and another one which is also probably not. Maybe STL would take them off their shelves if I did. Great to know you're getting a new Chen Ching, Cris! To be fair though, it's only to be expected. It's the only real thing to do in such a situation! You paid almost $3000, so it's only fair that you get given an ocarina that's actually made by the artist. I'm still a bit ticked-off that Chen Ching is content to sell his unoriginal works in the first place though. I know that two out of the possible three of his reglazed ocarinas on STL's site originated from makers who are not happy with having their works used in this manner. Even less that he "still considers them his work". 
Edited by Panch, Jan 22 2010, 04:39 AM.
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| zombiefewd1 | Jan 22 2010, 05:11 AM Post #106 |
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Ocarina maker
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Well he did glaze them. So technically they are his work. |
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| Panch | Jan 22 2010, 05:22 AM Post #107 |
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The Whistlemaker
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No, Desmond. No it does not mean that. If I were to repaint my house, it would by no means make me the architect. If I graffiti'd the memorial statue here, it should not come to suggest I made it. Please reply to this question Desmond, as I'm dying to know just what you think. Is it right for Chen Ching to take someone elses hard work, recolor it, and sell it as his own against the original makers wishes, claiming it as his work and selling it for a hugely inflated price? Well? How on earth can you possibly view this as acceptable? How the heck can you say it is "technically" his work? Edited by Panch, Jan 22 2010, 05:25 AM.
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| zombiefewd1 | Jan 22 2010, 05:27 AM Post #108 |
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Ocarina maker
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Yes but you painted the house isn't painting considered work? Perhaps this was a misunderstanding but when I said that it is technically his work I was talking about that glaze. The glaze is his work. Edited by zombiefewd1, Jan 22 2010, 05:27 AM.
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| David F. | Jan 22 2010, 05:32 AM Post #109 |
I WANT YOUR PHOTOS!!!!
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ok so by your logic if were to buy a stl ocarina re-glaze it to my liking, i could then sell if for a fat price tag and claim it as my own work! ? |
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| Panch | Jan 22 2010, 05:34 AM Post #110 |
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The Whistlemaker
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Desmond, you didn't answer the question I'd asked... Also read the translated Certificate of "Authentication"... do you see anywhere where the original maker is credited? Is this also somehow justified in your mind, Desmond? It seems to me like he didn't intend to ever "share" credit for this work. |
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| zombiefewd1 | Jan 22 2010, 05:42 AM Post #111 |
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Ocarina maker
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You couldent say that you made the ocarina but you could say that you glazed it and that the glaze is your work. |
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| kissing | Jan 22 2010, 05:45 AM Post #112 |
there is always time for a song
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lol, well it looks like everyone's happy. But I'm not entirely happy with this situation. My reasons being: -What if the vigilant members at The Ocarina Network had not picked up on this? STL or Chen Ching would have so easily "gotten away" with "accidently" selling other peoples' work/designs as their own. I'm not saying that I suspect STL of being dishonest, but it just seems rather convenient for them to claim it was a 'misunderstanding', after they had given so much hype about Chen Ching, going as far as making that pretentious certificate of "authenticity". I hope I don't seem like I'm attacking STL in saying this. I'm just stating what is on my mind at this scenario. -The people who view the STL website and have not come across this info have no idea of any of this. They'll naturally assume that those ocarinas are 100% Chen Ching's work, unless STL clears that up. But then again, is this anything new? -This would be a true display of "good customer service" had the "customer" not been someone that is personally friendly and affiliated with them (or maybe it's the fact that it costs a fortune).
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| David F. | Jan 22 2010, 05:53 AM Post #113 |
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I WANT YOUR PHOTOS!!!!
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Desmond you are contradicting your self u said
so if i glaze them they are my work so i can sell them as such! Edited by David F., Jan 22 2010, 05:55 AM.
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| zombiefewd1 | Jan 22 2010, 06:06 AM Post #114 |
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Ocarina maker
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The glaze is his work. You could call it your work. But you couldent say you made it. There was a miscommunication between STL and Chen Ching which lead STL to believe that he made them. Edited by zombiefewd1, Jan 22 2010, 06:08 AM.
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| David F. | Jan 22 2010, 06:17 AM Post #115 |
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I WANT YOUR PHOTOS!!!!
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yes that is a big misconception i personally got really ticked off! as an ocarina maker myself i would be infuriated if some one took one of my ocarinas and claimed it as their own only because they glazed it! how would u feel if some one took one of the ocarinas u made and claimed as their own and sold it for a large price tag against your wishes, or with out letting you know!? EDIT: it seems to me that he meant to make it seem as if he made it which ticks me off he could of simply said he did not make it but he did not he conveniently left that out so it seems to me like he meant to make it seem as if he made it! Edited by David F., Jan 22 2010, 06:24 AM.
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| Panch | Jan 22 2010, 06:24 AM Post #116 |
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The Whistlemaker
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I'm going to ask you this question once more, Desmond. Is it right for Chen Ching to take someone elses hard work, recolor it, and sell it as his own against the original makers wishes, claiming it as his work and selling it for a hugely inflated price? Well? And if he intended to only take credit for the glaze then WHY wasn't the original maker credited on the certificate? How on earth can you possibly view this as acceptable? I REALLY want to know.
Edited by Panch, Jan 22 2010, 06:27 AM.
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| hirohiigo | Jan 22 2010, 03:59 PM Post #117 |
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Ocarinist x 3
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To give STL the benefit of the doubt, they HAVE removed the triple from their website. Although their act of kindness towards Ocarinadiva will mean nothing if they don't offer a refund to EVERYONE who was sold this ocarina. |
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| Elven Spellmaker | Jan 22 2010, 07:21 PM Post #118 |
== Cirno -- Opinionated Baka == OI SAM, STOP IT XD
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Wasn't the triple a one of a kind? I think thats great that they are making a good business decision, but here is the REAL question. If I had purchased it would he have offered to send out a free Ocarina? Lets put this even more on the other end, if Sam had bought this, would he be offered a free Ocarina? Or is this because you have been contracted by STL, that you can a.) get a response from STL, b.) get the offer of a refund and a new Ocarina. Either way, I hope you like the new Ocarina Chris, and we'll expect Sound Samples soon. 
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| Ocarinadiva | Jan 22 2010, 08:13 PM Post #119 |
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www.crisgale.com
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@ ESM : Yes, the triple was the only one. I checked and STL removed the other Chen Ching without the stamp (the really pretty one that looked like space.) To my knowledge those were the only 2 on the site that had the spiral design instead of the stamp. I'm sure whoever had bought the triple would have been offered a refund and given an ocarina. STL has a different return policy for Chen Ching ocarinas and I've never communicated with Chen Ching beyond leaving youtube comments/messages so he really had no reason to give me an ocarina. The ocarina arrived today. I took a couple of pics. It's a soprano/alto in A major. It also came with a really pretty box.   |
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| Kiniko | Jan 22 2010, 08:22 PM Post #120 |
<3 Lolicon
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!! That was one of the Chen Ching shapes that I loved D: And it's in A, too!! It's so hard to find 12 holes in A! You lucky, you!! |
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| DavidRamos | Jan 22 2010, 08:29 PM Post #121 |
Behold my Ocarina Club.
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For the record, I never said, insinuated, or even thought that it looked like...whatever it is you think it looks like. All I said was that it had an almost human skin tone, which is a little weird to me  In terms of it's sound though, the maparam is now one of my favorites and I've used it for several public performances.About the Chen Ching "misunderstanding", I'm glad to see STL took the appropriate actions with offering the refund and removing the ocs in question from their site. @Diva - That was some SUPER fast shipping from China! If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take for STL to return your email and when did Mr. Ching ship the Oc? Edited by DavidRamos, Jan 22 2010, 08:34 PM.
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| kyleismr.smiley | Jan 22 2010, 08:34 PM Post #122 |
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<(*~*)>
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I'm just referring to a scandal that was caused here after a maparam vid you made where some thought thats what you meant. "Pocket Oc" Lol, its just my maparam! Sorry if you're getting worried maparam is just a good example on how people pick sides with that tone they are all in. |
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| Krešimir Cindrić | Jan 22 2010, 08:37 PM Post #123 |
In love with Ocarina di Budrio
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Cris, that's a pretty ocarina... I wonder how it sounds Just one suggestion, when you make lists of your ocarinas, you could list your triple as "Linmonder Triple, decorated by Chen Ching". The fact that it is not made by Chen Ching does not diminish it's value (it does raise some questions about STL and morality of Chen Ching, but I'd rather not go there). I think you made a good decision not to return it - it's a beautifully looking and sounding ocarina and it is in the hands of a very good player.
Edited by Krešimir Cindrić, Jan 22 2010, 08:58 PM.
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| Ocarinadiva | Jan 22 2010, 09:28 PM Post #124 |
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www.crisgale.com
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@ David I didn't send the email to STL so I don't know for sure. I believe the first reply was the same day. I'm not sure how long it took for STL to get in contact with Chen Ching or when/how the ocarina was shipped. @kcindric I'll try to get some sound samples recorded soon. I'm a bit under the weather right now  For now I'll still refer to it as a Chen Ching triple. I have been told that Chen Ching and the gentleman worked together on the first form and that Chen Ching took one of the forms made, modified it to his specifications, and then glazed it. If anyone knows Linmonder, please ask him to email me ocarinadiva@gmail.com. I'd love to get his thoughts on the situation first hand. @Kiniko Yeah, I'm really happy that it's in A. I should have put a coin in the picture so everyone could see how tiny it is. It's really cute. |
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| Kalin5513 | Jan 22 2010, 11:00 PM Post #125 |
Oca-Rocker - Don't mess with me, I'm Pro. 0_0
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That's a chen ching i would like. It's very pretty. Hope it sounds as good as it looks though. |
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| Legal | Jan 23 2010, 04:21 AM Post #126 |
Ocarina Engineer
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I have to agree, that's a pretty cool looking ocarina...I think I'll make one in a similar shape for myself
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| atkeane | Jan 23 2010, 10:40 AM Post #127 |
Uber Ocarinist X 2
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@ David and Kyle: Is that an ocarina in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me? On Topic: The customer service surrounding the Chen Ching ocarinas (actually listed on the STL site) is rather refreshing. At least that high price tag comes with a satisfaction guarantee. As a poor college student, I still won't be buying any Chen Ching ocarina any time in the near future, but it is a nice move on STL's part in the right direction. |
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| Nimue | Jan 23 2010, 02:39 PM Post #128 |
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<:3 )~~~
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I hope that Mr. Ching has the chance to read this thread. And then I hope he reads it again, through the eyes of someone very new to the ocarina community. It would be nice if people kept in mind that the global ocarina community is growing. New people stumble in here every day. Imagine if this was your first introduction to the world of ocarinas. Please don't misunderstand: I'm not suggesting these topics not be discussed. Rather, I'm suggesting that with the title "Master Craftsman" comes great responsibility. |
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| zombiefewd1 | Jan 30 2010, 01:51 AM Post #129 |
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Ocarina maker
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Woweee! It looks awesome! Video soon please!
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| darcado | May 9 2010, 02:06 PM Post #130 |
Inliner
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Desmond is like the defender of Stl or something  well either way if id sell one of my ocs for 3k it would be if i made it out of marble or something xD lol. |
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| zombiefewd1 | May 9 2010, 04:40 PM Post #131 |
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Ocarina maker
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M.r. Chen Ching does glaze some ocarinas with actual gold in it. |
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| kyreks4 | May 27 2010, 02:39 AM Post #132 |
future ocarina maker
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Why would one pay so much for aesthetics? I honestly don't see it... I would rather have an ocarina that looks okay and sounds great... than an ocarina that sounds okay and looks great! |
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| Ocarina Sensei | May 27 2010, 02:41 AM Post #133 |
Is Death a part of Life... or is Life a part of Death
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i'm pretty sure you payin' a little bit for great sound too |
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| hirohiigo | May 27 2010, 05:52 AM Post #134 |
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Ocarinist x 3
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For the reason you would pay a lot for a good painting. It's a work of art, and therefore it's valuable (to those who are interested in it). |
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| Krešimir Cindrić | May 27 2010, 09:43 AM Post #135 |
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In love with Ocarina di Budrio
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Yes, you are paying a little for the good sound, a lot for the looks, a lot for STL, and a lot more for Chen Ching's name. After all, he is the famous pottery artist...
Edited by Krešimir Cindrić, May 27 2010, 09:44 AM.
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