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Recorders revisited; Another thread continued
Topic Started: 27 Dec 2009, 08:29 PM (31,221 Views)
Roberto
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OcarinaJapan
Thanks so much Jack ! I dind't Know this tips to maintain my recorder in a good Health ! I start to searching almond or grape oild to oil the recorder first.
It takes long to dry the oil before to get ready for play it ?

This reorder I bought in Japan more than 8 years before has a realy beatuful sound and its my favorite. The other recorders I own are plastic Yamaha and they play well too.

Edit : I was looking for almond oil in ebay and found a lot but all they don't say nothing about if is posible to use it for Wood. Just says for medical, cousine, therapy, Hair etc

Any idea what type of oil I can use?
Edited by Roberto, 14 Dec 2015, 08:22 PM.
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Jack Campin
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Opener of Catfood Tins

I just use oil from supermarkets, delis, health food shops or pharmacies. You don't need anything special for instruments.

The reason I've gone for poppyseed oil recently is that it's semi-drying - means you don't need to apply it as often. Almond tends to go a bit smelly, grape doesn't. Olive starts out smelly and stays that way. Sunflower oil goes unpleasantly gooey if I remember right. Ney players swear by hazelnut oil, which is VERY expensive here (and not going to get any cheaper, the last two Turkish hazelnut harvests have failed from disease).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poppyseed_oil

The oil will soak into the wood in a day or two, depending on how warm it is. You can tell when it's done because the wet shine in the bore will have gone. Helps to rotate the sections of the instrument while the oil is soaking in, to make it sink in evenly. Immediately after oiling, leave the recorder sections vertical for a while, mouthpiece UP. This will stop oil dripping into the windway and lose any excess.

I re-oil about every six months.
Edited by Jack Campin, 15 Dec 2015, 11:21 AM.
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Roberto
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OcarinaJapan
Thaks Again Jack !!

From now I will take so much care of my wooden recorder and use the same knowledge for my other Wood and bamboo flutes ! :)
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Jack Campin
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More on boxwood: the problem with it is that it warps over the years with exposure to variable climate (and may well warp whatever you do). This mainly affects larger sized objects, like flutes and clarinets. To minimize risk, always wipe the recorder out after playing (twist a silk cloth though it and dry the windway with a feather). And don't always put it back in the box the same way round - drop each section into its slot rotated at random, so any damp bit at the bottom is in a different place every time.

Warping is not inevitable. I have some boxwood drawing instruments that belonged to my grandfather and date back to the late 19th century. They're still absolutely straight and usable. But people don't lick rulers.
Edited by Jack Campin, 15 Dec 2015, 11:19 AM.
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Roberto
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OcarinaJapan
I didn't know about the important care for Boxwood. Since I moved to this part of the world ( south America ) Where the weather is so hot on summers and humidity is strong on winters I must to take so much care of this beauty recorder. The sound is very beautiful in my opinión. I'm waiting now for a bottle of Pure Almond Oil to start oiling the recorder before using it.
Edited by Roberto, 15 Dec 2015, 11:41 PM.
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Tootieflutie
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Double Ocarinist x 3
Two things: I am amazed at how much difference warming up the head of the recorder makes! I just played for several minutes on my plastic Yamaha and had no wet out at all - not even any visible moisture on the inside!

Now, is it normal for me to feel like I have way too much air - like it is backing up into my lungs (like holding your breath) when I am playing? It's sort of like having too much air and not having enough air at the same time.

Is there a fix?
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Jack Campin
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You're over-breathing. Take smaller breaths more often. Put breath marks in your scores if it helps.
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Tootieflutie
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OK, I'll try that.
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Tootieflutie
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Well, I opened my Aulos keyless tenor recorder this morning. I was pleasantly surprised. That booger is heavy and the fingerspacing is wide, but I am able to reach it! YAY! I don't know how long at a time I will be able to play it because it is a strain on my wrist, but not nearly as bad as a classical flute. Standing is better for that.

I can get all the lower notes (haven't tried any others yet) but that bottom C is a tricky one. Sometimes it is really clear and at other times it is hard to find. I am sure it will get better as I get used to it.

Thanks for the info and recommendation on it, Jack! That $40 sale was a bargain!

I've also been reading parts of Rowland-Jones' Recorder Technique and Wollitz' Recorder Book. I am using them to develop a practice routine. Good stuff in both books!
Edited by Tootieflutie, 26 Dec 2015, 03:36 AM.
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Jack Campin
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Try sitting with your left leg over your right, balancing the bottom of the recorder on your left foot.

It's often less strain to hold a tenor recorder nearly horizontal.

Low C's do take time to get used to. It's crucial that every hole is properly sealed and the breath pressure and attack are just right.
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acox
Andy Cox
Tootieflutie
26 Dec 2015, 03:33 AM
Well, I opened my Aulos keyless tenor recorder this morning. I was pleasantly surprised. That booger is heavy and the fingerspacing is wide, but I am able to reach it! YAY! I don't know how long at a time I will be able to play it because it is a strain on my wrist, but not nearly as bad as a classical flute. Standing is better for that.

I can get all the lower notes (haven't tried any others yet) but that bottom C is a tricky one. Sometimes it is really clear and at other times it is hard to find. I am sure it will get better as I get used to it.

Thanks for the info and recommendation on it, Jack! That $40 sale was a bargain!

I've also been reading parts of Rowland-Jones' Recorder Technique and Wollitz' Recorder Book. I am using them to develop a practice routine. Good stuff in both books!
Yes this instrument is a bargain. I play mine all the time, but it is heavy--one reason I use an 'extended" bamboo or PVC tenor in the key of D. Andy
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Tootieflutie
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Double Ocarinist x 3
PVC one sounds interesting. Did you make it yourself?
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acox
Andy Cox
Yes Tootie I did and do. This model is made from PVC which allows experimentation with making for the children to play and make--finger holes are quite close. Range is D - g, seven fingerholes. I used PVC this time to decrease trial with so man variables in the interior diameter and wall thicknesses. I've been a failure in trials for a 2+ octave chromatic tenor (the sopranino, soprano and alto have been successful), but I keep trying. to listen to these play, this video from the Greek Guild is interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLeBOioxDBI

Because I need the low C, I make the tenor closed bamboo flute with the same fingering as an ocarina with one less high note. Both instruments were designed to be made and played by mid-school age children. i've seen videos of this instruction, but my experience, "adult" supervision is absolutely necessary

Andy
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Tootieflutie
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Double Ocarinist x 3
Wow! That is a gorgeous piece of music they are playing! Now I am going to have to try to find it and play it!
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Jack Campin
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It's the best known piece from Arbeau's "Orchesographie" - "Belle qui tiens ma vie". There are lots of arrangements of it, from Arbeau's time onwards.

http://imslp.org/wiki/Orch%C3%A9sographie_%28Arbeau,_Thoinot%29

original in French, 16th century notation:

http://waltercosand.com/CosandScores/Composers%2520A-D/Arbeau,%2520Thoinot/Orch%25C3%25A9sographie.pdf (page 61)

YouTube with on-screen score:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMWvm4wtzi4

There is also a cheap edition from Dover Publications which has the text in English and the music in modern type and modern clefs. But the original is readable enough.
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acox
Andy Cox
but Jack, how do you like the bamboo flutes?
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Jack Campin
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They do sound nice, but I don't have an immediate use for them. I have the raw materials for a few gemshorns and ostrich-egg ocarinas to make first.

I had all the parts for the Arbeau, so I put them together. The MIDI takes the bass down an octave.

Spoiler: click to toggle


Multi-voice ABC is so badly standardized that might not work here. I attach the MIDI and PDF files generated by the ABC application I use.

[edit: wonder of wonders, it did work, except for not indicating that the tenor voice is written an octave high].

The range of each part is so small that any ocarina can play it.
Attached to this post:
Attachments: BelleQuiTiensMaVie.mid (1.88 KB)
Attachments: BelleQuiTiensMaVie.pdf (37.25 KB)
Edited by Jack Campin, 28 Dec 2015, 11:56 PM.
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Tootieflutie
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Double Ocarinist x 3
Gosh, Jack! You are a wealth of knowledge! Thanks for the info and links and PDF!

I do have a question, though. Why does it have a different title in Andy's youtube? I found the score of that one for sale here: http://www.scoreexchange.com/scores/157144.html

Is it the same song?

I'm going to print your PDF out and play it!
Edited by Tootieflutie, 29 Dec 2015, 12:28 AM.
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Jack Campin
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Peter Warlock's "Capriol Suite" (what ScoreExchange is offering) is an early 20th century arrangement for string orchestra of some of Arbeau's dances, "Belle qui tiens ma vie" among them.

Warlock was fairly strange: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Warlock

I like "The Curlew", the rest of his music doesn't do much for me.
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acox
Andy Cox
.....Eton, Oxford, etc...what has happen to the desires to learn? thanks Jack for this name
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Tootieflutie
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Double Ocarinist x 3
Jack Campin
29 Dec 2015, 02:28 AM
Peter Warlock's "Capriol Suite" (what ScoreExchange is offering) is an early 20th century arrangement for string orchestra of some of Arbeau's dances, "Belle qui tiens ma vie" among them.

Warlock was fairly strange: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Warlock

I like "The Curlew", the rest of his music doesn't do much for me.
Hm . . . sounds like copyright infringement. I did not see anything saying that he had arranged it. Sounded like he was the original composer. Thanks for clearing that up. I'll stick to the original composer's work.

It really is beautiful!
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Jack Campin
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There was no infringement. Arbeau had been dead for 300 years, and Warlock's piece is his own distinctive take on Arbeau's music (and had a large influence on its re-popularization). And Warlock died in 1930 so ScoreExchange is free to do what they want with his stuff.
Edited by Jack Campin, 29 Dec 2015, 03:09 PM.
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Tootieflutie
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Double Ocarinist x 3
Well, duh on me for not thinking that through! Seems like he would have at least given credit where it was due. Thanks for setting the record straight on that.

I will have to see if I can find more of Arbeau's music.
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acox
Andy Cox
Tootieflutie
29 Dec 2015, 02:00 PM
Well, duh on me for not thinking that through! Seems like he would have at least given credit where it was due. Thanks for setting the record straight on that.

I will have to see if I can find more of Arbeau's music.
Jan, if you liked that, have you tried music on this site?

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/vladislav/filk/

I do believe Jack was instrumental in posting this.....and after finding music as this, I stopped searching for multi-octave musical instruments and now play on ocarinas and bamboo pipes. If you should be interesting in viewing examples, I will send some photos via PM

Andy
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Claytone
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Double Ocarinist x 2
Some time ago I made a recording of the Pavane for ocarina ensemble.
https://soundcloud.com/saxology/pavane-and-gaillarde-ocarina
On soundcloud there's also a wonderful Jazz version sung by Sara Della Porta.
https://soundcloud.com/sara-della-porta/belle-qui-tiens-ma-vie
Edited by Claytone, 29 Dec 2015, 07:20 PM.
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Tootieflutie
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Double Ocarinist x 3
acox
29 Dec 2015, 06:10 PM
Tootieflutie
29 Dec 2015, 02:00 PM
Well, duh on me for not thinking that through! Seems like he would have at least given credit where it was due. Thanks for setting the record straight on that.

I will have to see if I can find more of Arbeau's music.
Jan, if you liked that, have you tried music on this site?

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/vladislav/filk/

I do believe Jack was instrumental in posting this.....and after finding music as this, I stopped searching for multi-octave musical instruments and now play on ocarinas and bamboo pipes. If you should be interesting in viewing examples, I will send some photos via PM

Andy
Ooo, thanks for that link, Andy! I'll be trying some of those!
Claytone
29 Dec 2015, 07:19 PM
Some time ago I made a recording of the Pavane for ocarina ensemble.
https://soundcloud.com/saxology/pavane-and-gaillarde-ocarina
On soundcloud there's also a wonderful Jazz version sung by Sara Della Porta.
https://soundcloud.com/sara-della-porta/belle-qui-tiens-ma-vie
Thanks! I'll listen when I am on my computer. My phone wouldn't let me. :(
Edited by Tootieflutie, 29 Dec 2015, 08:15 PM.
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acox
Andy Cox
how did you find the Sara Della Porta, belle qui tiens ma vie;. How is that best translated, Belle who has my life in her hands? it's been such a long time.
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Claytone
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Double Ocarinist x 2
Sara Della Porta's version was one of the automatically generated suggestions soundcloud offers.
Normally I don't like it, but in this case it's a genuine discovery.
It's strange that a cleric like Thoinot Arbeau wrote such a beautiful love poem, here you can find a translation.
http://www.users.on.net/~algernon/bellequitiens/translation.html
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Tootieflutie
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Double Ocarinist x 3
I enjoyed the ocarina version. The singing? Not so much. I am more into instrumental music.

Thanks for all the info, y'all! I'm learning a lot!
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Jack Campin
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A nice survey of new ideas in recorder design. Some of these tricks with the windway could transfer to the ocarina.

http://www.recorderhomepage.net/history/innovations-in-recorder-design/

And if anyone's looking for a great alto recorder (particularly if you're in the US), this looks like an astonishing bargain:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-WILLIAM-KOCH-F-ALTO-WOODEN-RECORDER-W-ORIG-BOX-FINGER-BOARD-MUSIC-/121894992558

I have a similar instrument in cocobolo and it's probably the best of all the many recorders I own. Wonderful bright, powerful sound. Koch died in 1970 and is rather underrated now; his instruments did a lot to power the early music revival in the US, with players like Bernard Krainis. He didn't do historical copies, but for playing unhistorical music like jazz they're unbeatable.
Edited by Jack Campin, 19 Feb 2016, 01:52 PM.
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Jack Campin
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This video has a great illustration of recorder playing's equivalent of the acute bend. About 1:25:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUDLPLKh7FE

Maybe if you're that pretty you can get away with it a few times and the audience will just think you're showing your legs off. Make a habit of it and they'll think, WTF???

The idea is that if you block the end of the recorder, you get a different series of harmonics out of the instrument, which allows for some more effective fingerings for very high notes. (The alto is the only size where this is feasible). Some recorders have been fitted with a "bell key" (usually a piece of repurposed clarinet mechanism) to cover it, but more usually players just press the end of the recorder against their leg - only not often as dramatically as Tali Rubinstein.

I never do it. I'm too worried about knocking my front teeth out.
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Vendace
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Double Ocarinist
Jack Campin
2 May 2016, 01:12 PM
This video has a great illustration of recorder playing's equivalent of the acute bend. About 1:25:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUDLPLKh7FE

Maybe if you're that pretty you can get away with it a few times and the audience will just think you're showing your legs off. Make a habit of it and they'll think, WTF???

The idea is that if you block the end of the recorder, you get a different series of harmonics out of the instrument, which allows for some more effective fingerings for very high notes. (The alto is the only size where this is feasible). Some recorders have been fitted with a "bell key" (usually a piece of repurposed clarinet mechanism) to cover it, but more usually players just press the end of the recorder against their leg - only not often as dramatically as Tali Rubinstein.

I never do it. I'm too worried about knocking my front teeth out.
That does look a little conspicuous. It makes me thankful of the less noticeable ocarina's acute bend.

I understand your worries, I'd be afraid of that too. Just once too enthusiastically on a quick piece would hurt a lot.
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