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An electric ocarina?; Any ideas?
Topic Started: 28 Nov 2009, 11:32 PM (5,303 Views)
NaNoWriMo
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Needs to be pulled out alive.
I was at my grandparent's house yesterday with my abnormally shrill ocarina. As I was playing Epona's song, (The shrillest of all songs) they asked me very politely (Through gritted teeth) to stop playing, as it was getting on their nerves. Not because I was playing too much, but because "the thing is just too loud."

Which is when a thought came a-barrelling into my head without me even having to think about it. Why not design and build an ELECTRIC OCARINA!?

I have no experience with engineering, but I think a senser for blowing is pretty easy to make by today's industrial standards. IT WILL HAVE NO ACOUSTICS.

It could have detachble parts with the base one having six holes (a pendant) and being able to go all the way up to four chambers. The fingering could be done with motion sensers and the sound could come from (pardon my french) a sh*toad of sound samples. The sound will come from either headphones or amplifier, making it possible to play on long car rides or airplanes without irritating the hell out of whoever else is with you; you can also use it for pumping up the sound or adding gain (distortion) that will help for concerts (if you should ever need one.

Before you call me crazy, I know I am.

What'y'all think?
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Adam
Triple Ocarinist x 4
. . .
Edited by Adam, 28 Jun 2016, 05:23 AM.
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hylandude123456789
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Back from the dead
it already exists it's the smule I-phone app
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jackspace111
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An ocarina fanatic
Hooking an Ocarina up to an amp. That'd be funny.
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dechujoh64
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wonder why i need to hide?
hylandude123456789
29 Nov 2009, 12:14 AM
it already exists it's the smule I-phone app
but what I think he means by that is that he would like to see a 4 hole or higher ocarina that whether it be plastic or ceramic that you could adjust the volume of said electric ocarina. and not have to burn out someone' s ear for playing a song.

and I would totally buy that.


BUT... the only problem with it would be the mechanics of the ocarina itself. but i would still by it none the less.
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viperdvman
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Fledgling Ocarinist and Floutist
I've had my parents ask me if my ocarina was electric when they first saw it and heard me play it. And I told them..."Nope. It's real." :D

It would be nice to have an electric ocarina. There's already electric pianos and guitars, as well as a few other instruments. So why not? :D
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Crowler
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emergency medical hologram
Isn't KuraiSong working on one of these?
Edited by Crowler, 29 Nov 2009, 11:52 AM.
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steviedoors97
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Transverse Ocarinist x 4
I would buy it.
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kissing
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tyrannical dictator

They have something like this for saxophone players:

Maybe something like this could be made for the ocarina.

Though it would be simpler on the ocarina, since we don't have to worry about reed pressure and the fingering is not as complicated.

If something as simple as the Smule in the Iphone can emulate an ocarina, I don't think it would be overly difficult to design something that is like the Smule, but with its own body, and made to emulate 12-holes to triples.
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Vermin
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O·ca·ri·na - pla·ying - an·droid
I believe you should just attach one of those round piezo pick-ups.
My mother uses one on her acoustic violin. It basically just senses the vibrations in the wood, and it should be able to get the vibrations in the ocarina as well. I haven't tried it yet though, but it should be possible. It wouldn't be a full electric ocarina though, as it will still be making sound acoustically (if that's an English word), but you could connect the pick-up to an amplifier.

Does AKAI also make EWI clarinets?
Don't have any money yet, but I'm not good in the clarinet yet either, so I still have some time.
Edited by Vermin, 29 Nov 2009, 03:46 PM.
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kissing
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tyrannical dictator

I don't think piezo pickups work for wind instruments.
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shadowyi
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dysfunctional family
You might like to do a quick search as well, many topics like this floating around and one with pretty detailed specs too!
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AbsoluteZero
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Electrical Engineer
When you say electric ocarina, do you mean electricity helps produce the sound of the ocarina or the ocarina is an electrical device itself. I mean, an electrical ocarina (built out of circuits and push buttons or sensors or something like that) that interfaces with hardware doesn't seem that complicated, but thinking about how to use the sound an ocarina already makes and change the sound through an amp sounds a little more complicated. (Wait...did a snowflake just fall down my screen...?)

EDIT -Never mind, i reread the initial post and you mean an Electrical Device Ocarina
Yea it doesn't seem that complicated, I was also personally planning on designing one maybe after I get my Bachelors in Electrical Engineerings but I dunno if i want to now, considering like a billion people have thought of it, and 2-3 people are going to work on it/ already are working on it
Edited by AbsoluteZero, 30 Nov 2009, 06:58 PM.
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toaster burn
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As Foretold by Nostradamus
I have a lot going on right now, but this is something I have been planning on experimenting with soon. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Sherb
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Nyanyanyanyanya

also, wasnt darryn songbird asking about these too?
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Turbo852
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Yeah, I think this is maybe the 3rd thread on this topic.

I feel like I could make one of these if I still had access to my university equipment. I've never worked with sound before, but I have done work with detecting button presses and digital displays. If you want a pure sound, I think generating a sine wave might work. We did a project in class where we had to generate a sine wave, but we didn't hook it up to a speaker or anything. It was for digital to analog conversion and vice-versa.
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jackspace111
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An ocarina fanatic
An electric oc would cost a fortune though...I wish I had money...
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kissing
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tyrannical dictator

not necessarily jack. electric instruments are often cheaper than their acoustic counterparts, depending on quality and how sophisticated.
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jackspace111
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An ocarina fanatic
oreallynoaw? Then I'd definitely get one then.
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moomaster
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No seriously, I'm not a cow. I'm Cogsworth instead.

OMG i was just thinking about this 2day!! though the detachable parts idk about......where would the jack go?
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lonemeditater
The Learning Thinker
hylandude123456789
29 Nov 2009, 12:14 AM
it already exists it's the smule I-phone app
best app ever@ :pendant:
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King Ocarina
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Pére Poches Drôles
anyone who's been on tinychat the same time as me knows I've already invented one :)
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Arthur Junqueira
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Inline Ocarinist x 3
This can't come to reality, because:

  • You need to blow to play, if the eletric ocarina blow for you, you will can't do blowing techniques;
  • This will not be portable, you will need equipment to play it;
  • You will not get the real sound of an ocarina, it will be a altered sound.
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hirohiigo
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Double Ocarinist x 2
Quote:
 
You need to blow to play, if the eletric ocarina blow for you, you will can't do blowing techniques;

Kissing made a post earlier in this thread about an electric wind instrument. It's certainly possible - the Yamaha wx5 even has functions for vibrato.
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moomaster
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No seriously, I'm not a cow. I'm Cogsworth instead.

well arthur junqueira, what about electric guitars? and keyboards? those are all electric instruments, do they not sound like thier acoustc counter part?

although i do kinda agree with teh non portable thing, it would be, but would take many hands to hold, or be very big and heavy
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dechujoh64
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wonder why i need to hide?
Arthur Junqueira
3 Dec 2009, 03:14 PM
This can't come to reality, because:

  • You need to blow to play, if the eletric ocarina blow for you, you will can't do blowing techniques;
  • This will not be portable, you will need equipment to play it;
  • You will not get the real sound of an ocarina, it will be a altered sound.
sorry to blow a hole into your statment here,but..
1 with the ocarina you could have like a flap that needs air to be pushed down onto a button to tell the ocarina to make noise and an exit for the air, too.
2 put speakers in it and a jack. having a small switch to turn it from speakers to jack.
3.technology will help us with that one.
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Mr.Popo
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Pendant Ocarinist
:jumpy: I think thats a great Idea! -_- I would buy it if I had the money :facepalm: :rain: wow I use emotes to much eh?
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Dirk Ocarina
Inline Ocarinist x 2
My electric ocarina.

It all started with the wish to practice this instrument without disturbing anyone.
But unfortunately there are no muteable ocarinas out there to buy.
The idea was instantly in my head, that it must be possible to build a silent playable ocarina.
I started from scretch without any knowledge of microcontrollers, electronics or even soldering.
But finally, with the help of some good friends, i made it.

The outside of my ocarina is self-modeled but 3D-printed by a workmate.
Inside are 1x arduino nano, 2x mpr121 capacity-sensors, 1x pressure-sensor and 1x powerboost with a chargeable lithium battery.

I posted a video on youtube to show how it works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ4d_mxdAqM

I am very proud of it and hope that almost every ocarina player in the world want such an ocarina to practice silently.

Hope you like it and maybe we find a company who will made it profesionally.
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Ocypode
Double Ocarinist
I was wondering, there seem to be a sensor that detects when you blow in the ocarina, but is it capable of altering the pitch, say, if you blow to little or too hard, to bend the note lower or higher in pitch, just like in a real ocarina?

There was (is?) an ocarina app on smartphone that did something similar, but with less "holes" - so not ideal to emulate a transverse ocarina.
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yordan
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total amateur
Dirk, you did very good job so far with your ocarina. I don't know how you generate the sound, but it seems it is not sample from the real instrument? Also, is your input from the air pressure taken as boolean trigger (blowing abowe some level generates sound, and below - not) or it really is a function of sound (eq. defines volume and pitch offset)? There was a video in YT (i think it was called MIDI ocarina) where the sound was really very close to the real instrument. You have already the platform, I assume with little more SW refining (good sound samples + more influence of yhe air pressure sensor in the sound modelling algorithm) it could be professional grade instrument. Maybe you can ask some ocarina makers from the forum for help. And later start a funding campaign - you have reached most of the potential buyers in this forum.
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Dirk Ocarina
Inline Ocarinist x 2
yes you are both right.

this is only version 1 with blowing above some level generates sound, and below - not. and only with pure frequencies.

version 2 will be with midi soundfonts and some specials like changing the octaves, the whole pitch, the instrumentsound, the volume and a chord-modus.

the video you mean is the "ocarduina" and i found it first yesterday after joining and searching your forum :)

First i thought: "damn this is exactly was i intended to build, but 5 years to late."

Second i thought: "wow sounds really good with all his blowing functions. if he can make it, i will be able too."

Third i thought: "where is he now? why is his product not available for all?"

So maybe i find him and can ask him some questions. And then i upgrade to version 2.
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LillyDragon
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*sips tea*
This is so exciting, and I love that you dove into learning electronics to do this; I also appreciate the description of what parts are used here. It's motivating me to try electronics again, after I gave that hobby up several years ago.

I could squeal in all caps for several pages, but I won't. The thought of being able to play an ocarina into the wee hours of the night, or even at college or in a car, and not disturb anyone, is a hard one to temper my excitement for. I could truly play an electric ocarina anywhere at any time. (Except in the shower, but water in my plastic ocarina's chamber messes with the tuning anyway. I tried. :X )

Have you contacted an ocarina maker like Songbird or Focalink? While I know something like this can't happen overnight, my interest is there. I would buy three in one sitting!
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Ocypode
Double Ocarinist
Have you considered having the processing taken care of by a smartphone or something? This way, you would only have to worry about the sensors in the ocarina. While it is cool to have a stand-alone instrument, its cost might be prohibitive, especially so for a small batch.

Anyway, for a first prototype, that's really promising.
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yordan
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total amateur
I think with all I can imagine as DSP (sound modelling), the power of ATM will be simply not enough. I have some ideas, which maybe in your help for the further development, Dirk (ich bin Informatiker, obwohl seit mehr als 10 Jahren ich Projektleiter bin und programiere selber nicht).
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LillyDragon
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*sips tea*
Ocypode
5 Sep 2017, 08:17 AM
Have you considered having the processing taken care of by a smartphone or something? This way, you would only have to worry about the sensors in the ocarina. While it is cool to have a stand-alone instrument, its cost might be prohibitive, especially so for a small batch.


Pairing a dedicated device with a smart phone wouldn't end well in the long run. You have two different major OSes to support, Android/iOS and all their flavors/varients, and a vast range of hardware to accommodate on the Android side. (Not to mention dozens of possible screen resolutions to account for in the GUI.) Eventually, when people upgrade to a new device, software that previously worked on their old phone might not work at all on their new one, so software maintenance has to be done moving forward.

So, I think that might be a never-ending uphill battle. Because while it would seem more cost effective for the consumer, it wouldn't be for the developer. A dedicated device that works independently from a constantly evolving OS platform is easier for a small company or team to support, and will keep on working no matter whether your smart phone does or not. (Some people prefer not to have a smart device as well, because of hardware security and OS security concerns.)

tl;dr, bad idea. :X
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Ocypode
Double Ocarinist
Still, when you consider how many people have smartphones and computer, it seems a waste to have yet another electronic devices instead of harnessing computational power many people already have at hand.
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Dirk Ocarina
Inline Ocarinist x 2
Hi,

i calculated the current cost of this prototype.

Approximately:
10 € pressuresensor
3 € microcontroller
2x8 € capacitysensor
8 € lithium battery
21 € powerboost and -charger
7 € 3d-printed ocarina
2 € wires and stuff
-------------------------------------------
67 € ~ 80 dollars

The next version will be with midi sound and i will try it without the capacity sensors like the 'ocarduina':
Therefor i calculated:
10 € pressuresensor
3 € microcontroller
8 € lithium battery
21 € powerboost and -charger
7 € 3d-printed ocarina
2 € wires and stuff
27 € midi synthesizer
-------------------------------------------
78 € ~ 93 dollars


@Ocypode:
Yeah you are right. It is possible to only send the midi signals via usb or via bluetooth to your external device with a synthesizer running, like 'garageband'.
But that also means extra wire to your external device, a dependency i dont want to,
or extra complexity in my ocarina to handle the bluetooth connection, which always mean more sources for errors.

@LillyDragon: i would only send midisignals via usb or bluetooth so there would be no OS problems. But my first idea was also an independent ocarina without any external devices. Like you said some people prefer not to have a smart device as well. For example me :)

@yordan: sounds good. you can write me a pm with your thoughts.
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yordan
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total amateur
Dirk, why don't you start a topic for the development progress of the next revision, where also design proposals and discussions could be collected? I will write my design proposal there, so it could be available for everyone :)
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LillyDragon
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*sips tea*
That's a nice parts lineup, Dirk! And seconding yordan on that, I would be happy to see a dedicated topic for this as well. A fully electric ocarina is more than worthy of its own topic.

Ocypode
6 Sep 2017, 07:41 AM
Still, when you consider how many people have smartphones and computer, it seems a waste to have yet another electronic devices instead of harnessing computational power many people already have at hand.


https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/09/the-global-cost-of-electronic-waste/502019/

The nature and life cycle of smartphones is wasteful in itself, if you think about it. Some people replace their phones as often as they might buy new socks. Again, a dedicated electronic ocarina will far outlast these things, and make more economic sense for the consumer as well as the developer.

But I'm getting on a tangent. My main point is pairing an ocarina with a smartphone, to save a marginal amount of money at best, is silly when a little extra nets you a fully independent device, and it won't be a non-functional paperweight if something happens to your phone. Even as a heavy user of mobile devices myself, I don't want an electronic ocarina fully dependent on my phone. I recently had a new phone stop working on me and had to go back to using my old one, which further reinforces my anxiety against depending too much on smartphones.
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Ocypode
Double Ocarinist
My not-so-smartphone is 5 years old. I expect it to live as long as possible.
If I was able to hook it up to a music controller, I'd be delighted to do so instead of buying a separate electronic device.

But you're right, there are a lot of other factors, and I'm not typical at all with my old smartphone.

Also, would a wind instrument send midi signal?
I'm not familiar at all, but to me midi files are the equivalent of music sheet, so would they be able to respond to things as vibrato, articulation or adjusting breath pressure?
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Dirk Ocarina
Inline Ocarinist x 2
midi is only the protocol you speak with your synthesizer.
and there are many ways to manipulate the soundfonts in your synthesizer via midi.
but therefor you need good soundfonts.

but "ocarduina" shows what is possible with midi and a good skill of programming.

like yordan says a little more SW refining, good sound samples and more influence of the air pressure sensor in the sound modelling algorithm.

An own topic is a good idea, although i dont have that much time to build and document everything. Im going to be a father in the next 3 weeks :)
And the main problem is where to put the new topic? XD
I am not familiar with such forum structures.
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Kitten Forest
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Double Ocarinist x 2
This looks like a really neat idea. I never thought of bluetooth for signals. I have had some issues with a USB synthesizer meant for iOS not working right, but I have an android phone and my iPad is outdated. I would love to be able to hook an ocarina up to my laptop other than just by using a microphone. I know someone who had Akai's USB wind instrument and it was pretty neat to try, but I wasn't familiar with the fingering since I play ocarina and 6-7 hole flutes.
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Dirk Ocarina
Inline Ocarinist x 2
update:
first trial with a vs1053b went good.
onboard of this chip is a little midi synthesizer and i managed to send midi signals via my arduino to this synthesizer to my headphone jack.

one step more towards my fist midigoal "ocarduina". he uses a similiar chip.

now i need a new pressuresensor, a new "ocarinacase" and little bit of time to finish my version 2.
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yordan
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total amateur
Dirk, if you want to start separate topic for your ocarina design, there is a section about it here:
http://theocarinanetwork.com/forum/18059/
It is part of the "ocarina making"
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Dirk Ocarina
Inline Ocarinist x 2
A little update for my version 1.

I can switch between earphones and a built-in speaker.

Check out my first real electric ocarina song video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxq1gSxUrpE

New equipment for the better midi version 2 is on the way.
And maybe then i will start a separate topic. :)
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