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Mountain Ocarinas; Quality durable inline ocarinas
Topic Started: 20 Nov 2009, 04:02 PM (38,244 Views)
Saki
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Surprisingly not dead
Hype train choo choo
Now I'm excited again
Edited by Saki, 17 Jan 2015, 06:24 PM.
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Harp Player
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Triple Ocarinist
I am very excited about the possibility of getting a ProRange. I don't know how long it will be before I can afford one but it is very much on my wish list.
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Bateleur
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Meh.

It's interesting that the ProRange will only have 10 finger holes. I'm guessing this means there are two bores for each finger position, one reaching to the first chamber and then another to the second. I'll have to hear it but I'm actually really interested in getting one, especially reading that it doesn't have as much of that MO type tone quality.
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Saki
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Surprisingly not dead
I'm excited, especially since it uses the left thumb hole to play high D. One of the reasons I ended up returning my MO was because I couldn't stand switching thumbhole patterns between my two ocarinas.

I'll be kind of disappointed if it doesn't have low B though. I rarely ever need low A but I find myself using low B all the time.
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Bateleur
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Meh.

Since the voicing is reported to be on the back of the ocarina, we may be able to do a slight bend with the chin to get a lower B, if there won't be any sub-hole notes. After a little practice if the ocarina is shaped just right, it can be about as easy as using sub-holes.
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Jubal
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Tree Hugger - Food is your right

I'm excited about the PR. I got the Poly set recently and I've been enjoying them both.

I thought I would I enjoy the G more than the C but it's the other way around right now.
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Harp Player
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Saki
18 Jan 2015, 04:06 AM
I'm excited, especially since it uses the left thumb hole to play high D. One of the reasons I ended up returning my MO was because I couldn't stand switching thumbhole patterns between my two ocarinas.

I'll be kind of disappointed if it doesn't have low B though. I rarely ever need low A but I find myself using low B all the time.
I agree it would be nice to have the low B I need it quite often as well.

From what I understand about the thumbs the right thumb is used to do the chamber switch somehow.

I am not sure how it works because I haven't seen one or seen any drawings.
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Wollemi Pine
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Triple-Double Ocarinist

Wollemi Pine
1 Jul 2012, 03:49 AM


Here's my Mountain aluminum that I bought from them a few months ago.

Posted Image
Aluminum bump. :)
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Jarlaxle
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beginner ocarinist
The mountain C is my walkabout and has been on my person almost constantly since i got it, higher pitches hurt my ears so i avoided the g. How long has it been since the pro-range was announced anyway?
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Bayou Mama
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Conflict resolution is only a half step away!
Wollemi Pine
13 Jul 2013, 04:13 PM
MO should release a Larry and Curly ocarina. :)
LOL, Wollemi! I was reading back through this thread and saw your gem of a post. I just wanted you to know that it made me smile today. :)
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Harp Player
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Jarlaxle
3 Mar 2015, 06:34 AM
The mountain C is my walkabout and has been on my person almost constantly since i got it, higher pitches hurt my ears so i avoided the g. How long has it been since the pro-range was announced anyway?
From what I understand Carl has been working on it off and on for about 10 years now. I think that is is going to go into production 'soon' but I am not sure what soon means in that context.
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angiessa
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Cartoon'd ocarinist

I emailed Karl to get on the ProRange waiting list a couple of days ago, and he said he's hoping to get it into production in the first quarter of this year. Of course, something could come up to delay that, but that's the general plan. :)
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Harp Player
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Here is a message from Karl that was posted on Mountains Ocarinas Forums concerning the "Pro Range"

Quote:
 

Well… where should I begin? First, I am touched by how supportive you have been! You guys have really hung in there with us despite the interminable wait, and I am grateful. So, here’s a little update on “Pro-Range.” (For the record, what we’ve been calling “Pro-range” here on the forum actually goes by another name, but I’ll be talking more about that soon. For the purposes of this post, I’ll just call it PR.)

PR is light, durable, pleasing, fluid-fingering, has a small, pocket-sized footprint, and plays two chromatic octaves. It really is the take-along flute I’ve always wanted but couldn’t get anywhere. I love playing it!

I tried hard to bring PR to the market this past Christmas, but I realized that, in order to make any money on the instrument, I’d have to charge $400 a piece. Also, production was going to be extremely limited because, even though PR is simple and intuitive to play, its interior design is very complex and requires great precision. Thus, I finally decided not to offer you an overly expensive, virtually unavailable flute last year.

After continuing to test and consider other manufacturing options, I’ve decided to place an order for quality injection molds on August 1st--about 5 weeks from now. PR needs to be molded as several “interlocking” components, so the molds are not cheap. However, at present, this is the only manufacturing method I’m aware of that will provide the precision we need while allowing us to lower the price substantially and keep up with demand. Although the Connecticut-based molder says the molds will take 8 weeks to build, my own experience would suggest that it could take up to 12 weeks--or even a bit more. Hopefully this will put PR in your hands sometime in October or early November.

How will we pay for the molds? At present, we plan to pay for the molds by creating detailed PR demonstration videos and then pre-selling a certain number of instruments (at a discount) to our past customers. You’ll be hearing more about that soon. If you are not on the PR waiting list and would like to be, please email us at info@MountainOcarinas.com .

Feel free to ask me any other questions you may have. I’ll be pleased to answer them, unless you press too hard for information that is still classified, in which case I may feel compelled to send one of my “associates” to your house late one night to have a “friendly” chat with you.




In a follow up message Karl stated that he hopes to have the price "under $100" I can't wait to own one of them. Karl has been working on this for over 10 years so you know it will be as close to perfect as he can make it.
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carbon


That's awesome and amazing news! I really can't wait to see Ubizmo play it. Also the was an awesome guy called ocarinarojo that rocked the mountain ocarinas.

At $100, I'll probably buy one just to support innovation for ocarinas. Whatever you may think of MOs, you have to respect Karl's tenacity!
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Amerred
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Can't play pendants
Whoah, that's spectacular! I'm in shock! Now I feel kind of dumb for wondering about how MO was doing and about the progress of the double/PR over on that sale thread... This is really great to hear, and I'm definitely wishing Karl the best of luck. I'm looking forward to their release, especially after such a long time spent in development - as Harp Player said, I'm sure it'll be worth the wait. I haven't acquired any new ocarinas for a while, but this is definitely something that I'll keep my eye on - it's too momentous to pass up.
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Harp Player
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Triple Ocarinist
Here is the latest update from Karl about his new Ocarina. It looks like He has been working on it very hard for the last month.

Quote:
 

Re: Something to talk about...the "ProRange"
« Reply #120 on: Today at 04:12:36 pm »
Reply with quoteQuote
Okay, time for an update. I've been meaning to post again as soon as I had every thing worked out, but... I've been on an all out prototyping sprint for the last month. Here's why.

First, a little background... I originally designed "PR" (which will have another name when released) to be made from Dymondwood. Later, when Dymondwood was no longer available, I tested many materials and ultimately switched to Micarta. (Because of the complex design and precision of this instrument, less stable or durable materials such as traditional hardwoods are not suitable.) After a very long process of prototyping, spread across several versions, countless variations of each version, and even a few different names, I was finally ready to release "PR." However, after some months of trying to work out all the production issues, I finally had to accept the difficult reality that my micarta flutes would require far too much highly skilled labor. As mentioned previously, the price would have to be too high for your liking or mine, and supply would be extremely limited. In other words, most of you would probably never get to play one.

After considering other options, I switched to 3D printing, attracted by the ability that 3D printing would give me to respond quickly to feedback from customers. With help from a grant from the State of Connecticut, the wonderful people at the Connecticut Center for Advanced Technology got me through the initial stages of the the 3D printing process. Ultimately, after a lot of experimentation and testing of different 3D printing technologies, I finally realized --once again-- that the 3D prints would also require several hours of skilled labor in order to produce a top quality flute. That, along with high printing costs, meant that 3D printed instruments would also have to be expensive and rare. (And the truth is, even though we printed the instrument in a few pieces so that I could perform extensive tweaking inside and out, my 3D printed instruments simply don't play quite as well as my precision-machined micarta instruments. 3D printing is a fantastically useful technology, but the precision and surface quality is still lacking for my particular application.)

Now we are moving toward injection molding, a process that --provided the mold is made correctly-- can deliver the kind of precision and affordable prices that I'm striving for. What is the hold up? Well, since I designed "PR" with other technologies in mind, there are certain features that don't translate well to injection molding. After a few meetings with our mold designer, I realized that, unless I was willing to make some design changes, excellent results were not a sure thing. Even though it was initially discouraging to think of changes at this late stage, I wasn't willing to roll the dice on iffy mold design. This new flute is really something special, and the injection molded version should be every bit as good as my prototypes.

Unfortunately, one of the needed changes involved tweaking the large sound chamber. Of course, I thought I'd be done after an intensive sprint of a week or so. However, every little change inside a chamber can affect sound, tuning, toneholes, voicing dimensions, etc., and making super precise prototypes to test the variables is very time-consuming. (Unless, the prototypes are carefully made, you can't accurately evaluate them.) Finally, DECIDING between a few similar but distinct versions can be highly subjective and time-consuming, especially since the same instrument will sound different in different rooms, etc. Thus, my week-long sprint has turned into a month-long mara-sprint. The end result is turning out better than ever, but it's a lot of work. As my loving wife has reminded me, "If it were easy, everyone would be doing it."

Next week I hope to get this project back in the hands of our mold designer. Sorry I'm not farther along, but we keep making steady progress. Poco a poco, se va lejos.

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Vendace
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Double Ocarinist
Wow, it certainly seems like it's been an interesting design process. I'm looking forward to seeing how these turn out.
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Sailway
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Beginner
I am very exciting to get my hands on one of these new Mountain Ocarinas!
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EriChanHime
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Inline Ocarinist x 4
This is very exciting, as I would love to learn inline playing, and though I've ordered the C & G set from MO, there has been a snag in shipping (tracking says delivered, office never got it, I have nothing). Very distraught, really, as I also ordered several books, and the whole thing has disappeared! I really like the idea of an extended range inline that doesn't require back and forth like a double ocarina. The patent pictures that someone posted a long time ago here show a wonderfully innovative design. I'm definitely on the bandwagon in wanting one of these, particularly if they are priced as much lower from the earlier estimate as it seems they will be.
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Harp Player
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Triple Ocarinist
EriChanHime
30 Aug 2016, 09:59 PM
This is very exciting, as I would love to learn inline playing, and though I've ordered the C & G set from MO, there has been a snag in shipping (tracking says delivered, office never got it, I have nothing). Very distraught, really, as I also ordered several books, and the whole thing has disappeared! I really like the idea of an extended range inline that doesn't require back and forth like a double ocarina. The patent pictures that someone posted a long time ago here show a wonderfully innovative design. I'm definitely on the bandwagon in wanting one of these, particularly if they are priced as much lower from the earlier estimate as it seems they will be.
I am sorry that your order has gone missing. Have you contacted the Post office or Mountain Ocarinas? The number is on their website.
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Glass
Pendant Ocarinist x 2
I recall my mountain order taking extremely long to come... but it did... eventually.
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EriChanHime
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Inline Ocarinist x 4
YES! It was found. Huuuge relief. Took the Post Office 5 days to figure out where my package was. It's waiting for me at the apt. office when I get home. Let me say that Mountain Ocarina was AMAZING from a customer service standpoint. After contacting, the Post Office, my actual mail carrier, my apartment office and so on, I called MO to let them know what was going on. I talked to Susan, who is lovely. She said they would completely refill the order at no extra charge to me, if it wasn't found by the end of the week. Now, THAT is standing behind your work. Fortunately, it won't be necessary! Looking forward to trying everything out when I get home. Got the poly C and G, the curriculum and several ocarina-friendly song books (love sheet music, and I've been practicing my transverse ocarina with old violin practice books and hymnals, but the range can be an issue). I've gone back to being excited!
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Harp Player
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Triple Ocarinist
I am glad that you got your order.

You should find the C Mountain Ocarina to cover the range in about 80-90% of the songs in Hymnals. I will seldom even need to play the B below middle C. With a little practice up to 3 sharps and 3 flats can be played without getting your fingers twisted up in knots, so that will cover most of the Keys in the Hymnals as well.
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EriChanHime
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Inline Ocarinist x 4
Thanks, Harp Player! That's pretty impressive, really. I've now spent about an hour total playing with them, split between the C and G. I still get that buzz/hiss sometimes, as I'm not completely sure how much breath to use on these versus my transverse. However! I played scales and Joy to the World (from the fingering chart) and Greensleeves (from sheet music) on the G for a friend at work today, and she said both songs were recognizable without me telling her the title before I played. So, yay! :)

I really love the portability of the poly inlines. I hate things around my neck, though, so I will be sewing little pouches for them so I can throw them in my purse and not have them rattle against my keys.

Anyone else made a case/bag for theirs?
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Harp Player
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Triple Ocarinist
It takes a while to get rid of the buzz and hiss. The hardest part for me was playing the B/C hole on the MO. For some reason my Warmstone C is a little easier for me to play the low notes. I don't know if that is due to the material or just a slight production difference.

My ears prefer the lower notes of the C over the G but that is a matter of personal preference.
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EriChanHime
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Inline Ocarinist x 4
That makes me feel better. :) It's like I can make the right sounds sometimes, then other times it does have that odd change in tone. I notice it especially when I play songs that have high and low notes; the tonal quality is different between the two hole lines. Something to work on! I'm pleased to know that it's not just me, and that it goes away with practice.

I don't remember if it was this board or the MO one, where someone said they prefer whichever one they're playing at the moment! I think I feel the same way, although I do gravitate towards lower instruments most of the time. I'm pleased with the sounds on both the C and G, and I think I will happily swap back and forth depending on the character of the song. I'm trying to play every song on both (plus the transverse). :)
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Harp Player
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Triple Ocarinist
The only transverse I own is one of Robert Hickman's Pure alto D's I love the sound of it and it don't have the buzz problem of the MO. I wish my old man wrists could stand to play it for more than a few minutes at a time.
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Harp Player
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Triple Ocarinist
Here is the latest news from Karl about the new 2 octave ocarina that many of us have been waiting on for so long. This is a copy / paste directly from his forums:

Quote:
 
Where should I begin to try to describe my progress over the last few months?

First, I have to say that I've been having a wonderful time lately playing my accurate (with a bit of expert tweaking) but very expensive 3D printed prototypes. "Pro-Range's" extra range has allowed me to enjoy playing music that I couldn't previously. For instance, I've been playing a lot of gorgeous Turlough O'Carolan tunes that require most or all of "PR's" two-octave range. Delightful, stimulating stuff! (FYI, some time ago I compiled a book to include with "PR" which will introduce you to playing it in a step by step manner. The book has about 66 beautiful tunes, many of them in 2, 3, or even 4 different keys, including a bunch of Carolan tunes.) I'll try to make some sound samples soon. Maybe even a video.

And I'm thinking about posting some photos soon. Up to now, I've been hesitant to post photos for a few reasons. The biggest reason is that this has been a long, ambitious process with many twists and turns, and I wanted to be very close to launch before getting too much excitement going. Along those same lines, the photos would give away the flute's actual name, which I've always planned to reveal at the time of launch. (But you guys wouldn't tell anybody, right?) In addition, as we move through the pre-production process, "PR's" outer appearance has been undergoing slight changes, and I hate to show you inaccurate or underwhelming pictures. In other words, the real thing will look better than my prototypes.

Alright, alright! You've convinced me. After talking it out with you guys (thanks for not interrupting!), I've decided to try to post some photos in the next week or so.

As I believe I've posted before, the challenge has been to take a very complex, precise design, which I first prototyped in hard stable materials such as micarta and then later through precision 3D prints, and adapt it so that we could we could affordably* and precisely reproduce it, so that you could afford to buy it.

(When I say affordably*, I'm referring to per unit costs. The expensive up front costs of development, tooling, and the incredible amount of time I've put into this are... well... they are what they are. When all is said and done, this is the instrument that I've always wanted, the one that I used to wish I could buy somewhere, so we've just kept plugging along through one challenge after another. It's something I believe in.)

So, what's the latest hold up? Well, since my last substantial posting, we've had four sets of precision 3D prints made. Each subsequent print represents changes we have made to improve and test the moldability of our design as much as possible before the tooling is made. To provide an example, we recently made tweaks to a windway assembly so that it would mold more precisely. So far, I have been working with my tool designer to convert this wonderful pocket-sized flute into something that could be precisely injection molded. I have just signed off on the design, so now my mold designer will begin to plan out the actual injection mold with all its features, such as gating, cooling, inserts, etc. He tells me that it will be about two weeks before the mold is designed. Then I get quotes on the tooling, and soon (hopefully) we begin cutting steel. I've already had a few meetings over the last several months with the Connecticut company that I hope to work with to build our tooling and then mold our parts.

In truth, I could have signed off on a mold design a couple of months ago, but I have previous experience with four other sets of molds, and I'm just not willing to settle for a pretty good design. I am determined to have an excellent end result, a precise, concert-quality flute that you'll enjoy playing and carrying with you wherever you go. Despite some popular lore to the contrary, engineering grade plastics can offer several advantages over materials such hardwood, clay, or metal, PROVIDED THAT THERE IS AN EXCELLENT DESIGN AND PRECISE ADHERENCE TO THAT DESIGN. That's what I am after.

By the way, if you've been to the Mountain Ocarinas website recently, you'll notice that we are sold out of all our instruments except for our polycarbonate Gs. Sorry about that! Some time ago I decided to go out on a limb and cease production of our other instruments so that I could focus on "Pro-range." While that's been a challenge because it has reduced our sales quite a bit, I'm excited that we're finally drawing close to the finish line with "pro-range." Did I say the finish line? It's actually the starting line.
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Harp Player
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Triple Ocarinist
I wanted to let everyone know that Karl posted a few snapshots of a printed prototype of his new Ocarina. If you want to see the pictures check out the forums there. Look on the Something to talk about thread.

Note: the printed model also has the name of the new product on it.
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Daniel
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Double Ocarinist x 3
http://www.ocarinaboard.com/bb/index.php?topic=2512.msg19086#msg19086

Very interesting design....
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Amerred
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Can't play pendants
Huh. It looks interesting, and I'm really glad that Karl's getting a bit closer to finishing it and advancing his business. I'll definitely be interested to see how the fingering system works on it. I can't see that many more holes, so maybe it relies on half-holing or overblowing? I don't know, but I'm looking forward to hearing more.
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Harp Player
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Triple Ocarinist
From what I understand it has 2 airways, and 2 chambers but only one set of holes. I am not sure how that works.
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TheZ
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Multichamber Ocarinist
I believe it does have 2 sets of holes, they're just inline so you don't have to switch, similar to the TNG double pendant.
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Harp Player
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Triple Ocarinist
I took a closer look at the photo, I think you are right. It looks like some sort of split hole type of setup
Edited by Harp Player, 13 Nov 2016, 08:28 AM.
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Amerred
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Can't play pendants
Yeah, the patent looks like it's for split holes. That's interesting. Can't wait to see his future progress. Shouldn't be too long by now.
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WindSong
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This is pretty exciting!
Looking forward to the finished product. :)
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Harp Player
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Triple Ocarinist
Thanks for the link I had always wondered about the concept that his product uses.
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Kitten Forest
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Double Ocarinist x 2
I wonder what range it would have. It looks like a similar concept to the Hind double inline I have, but different size and shape inside.
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ubizmo


TheZ
12 Nov 2016, 10:56 PM
I believe it does have 2 sets of holes, they're just inline so you don't have to switch, similar to the TNG double pendant.
Karl refers to them as "bisected" tone holes. They're more or less a divided oval, with each half opening into a different chamber. He patented the design long before the TNG pendant but decided not to sue for patent infringement. The result is you don't have to move the fingers of your right hand from one chamber to another when switching chambers, and the two chambers are exactly* an octave apart. Almost. There's also some overlap between the chambers, so B, C, C# and D can be played on either chamber.
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WizardZelkam
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Pendant Ocarinist x 2
Does anybody know if Karl intends to continue selling his regular ocarinas once production of the coda is underway? I had wanted to get a C and G set in warmstone and now I'm regretting not buying them sooner.
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yordan
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total amateur
Am I looking wrong, or there is only G Poly ocarina available on MO website? I wanted to buy Alto C in warmstone, but the shipping price to EU put me back, now seems all the range reduced to Poly G only...
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jordan.1210
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Transverse Ocarinist x 3
yordan
6 Jan 2017, 01:14 AM
Am I looking wrong, or there is only G Poly ocarina available on MO website? I wanted to buy Alto C in warmstone, but the shipping price to EU put me back, now seems all the range reduced to Poly G only...
From what I read, I don't remember exactly where, MO is sold out of all ocarinas except the poly G and isn't producing more because they are working on getting ready to produce their "ProRange" which can play two octaves. Once they do this they should go back to producing more types. I had this problem too when I went back looking to buy some MO ocs.
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Bobbie
ocarinas & etc
I called MO recently to ask if there were any oc's available other than the G in Poly. The answer was No. Of their entire line, the only product available for sale was the G-Poly. I would have bought a G-C set but couldn't.

I think the world of what MO has accomplished... it's a small family firm that produces great products, impressively innovates, offers excellent instructional and tutorial material, has a very useful website... and I could go on. It's an amazing and admirable story.

But Business 101 says "never turn away customers who want to pay you money," and MO is violating this basic rule. Even if your goal is the new product, stockpile and sell the current ones. This is how you keep up cashflow and get the funding for your new product!

I see many forum messages, here and elsewhere, where customers state they want to buy MO products but they're not available from MO. I hope this business error doesn't harm this company that contributes so much to the ocarina world.
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ubizmo


The problem is the expense involved in trying to sustain the old product line while trying to get the new product going. I don't know what the plan is with respect to the existing MOs but I do know that the up-front costs involved in the new model are considerable.

I don't know what the minimum order for poly MOs is but I do know that having the parts made is just one step. The assembly and finishing work are also a large part of the expense. Karl can do a lot of that himself but if he does there is simply no time to finish developing the new instrument. Indeed, that's the main reason why work on the new model was delayed as long as it was. It's very hard to run a small business without getting caught up in just about every aspect of it.

I'll say this: The new one will be worth the wait.
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Harp Player
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Triple Ocarinist
I just wanted to let you know the Karl posted some updates about the new CODA. It spans several messages so I will just direct you to the form posts there if you are interested:

http://www.ocarinaboard.com/bb/index.php?topic=2512.210

Note: The update starts close to the bottom of page 15 and spills on to the next page.
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