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Double from STL: danger for health?; What causes the odd smell on a purple clay double ocarina?
Topic Started: 14 Oct 2009, 03:15 PM (6,236 Views)
Fly
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For nothing but Fun
My problem is now solved, see edit below.


Hi Folks,

I've got a problem now.
My brandnew :double: TNG double purple clay arrived and something happened I would never have thought about... It smells, well, very strange. Like a mothball. Meaning it smells like Naphthalin, famous for beeing used as a moth poison that is of course not absolutely harmless for human, too.
Now I don't know how this comes. Of course it could be in the box for a long shipping. But it seems far stronger from the instrument than from the box. The manufactorer could have bathed the ocarina in it for a similar reason. Than I found out that some glazings for ceramics are made with use of naphthalin.
I'm quite perplexed at the moment and don't know what to do. I breathe very near to the surface and I even take it in my mouth when I play.
Anyone else noticed? Does it fade away? What do you think it is?
Will you please help me? I don't even dare to :playoc: on my new instrument anymore :(
Of course I could bath it in parfumes to get rif of the stinking, but my problem is the health.

Current idea what I'm doing some research for is: (please stay calm when you read it :) ) Heating the ocarina up to 220°C. Clay products are burnt at higher temepatures so it should stand it but naphthalin becomes a gas at about 215°C. This special oven has a ventilation that should be able to take away the evaporated stuff so it does not lay on it again afterwards.
This way I should get the crap out of the pores of the clay if it it is in there.
Dangers here of course are that the clay could crack. It should not, that's no very high temperature and purple clay or zisha is said to be hardy as far as I read. Or that the ocarina could shrink and the sound and tuning could change.
So I thought I ask some specialists what they think about this. How would that effect it? How long can I make such a thing without damaging the sound?

My second thought was to take some invisible paint (don't know a better fitting word but you get the idea) and "emprison" anything that is in the glazing.

Any ideas? Remarks? Please? :(

Or of course I could sell it to someone who is not so over-reacting and buy a Focalink double. I'm not shure whether or not I like the idea. On the one hand I'd like to get rid of it, on the other hand I like my little one so much already.

Yours,
A sad little Fly.



What I tried.

- Digging it in water over night. Senseless. It helps only as long as it is laying under the surface. And could not help from the beginning on, since naphthalin is not water-soluble.

- Burry it in uncooced rice a week now, credits to Moonsyne. Helped. Smell has decreased signiffically but up to now did not disappear.

- Washing it with soap. Not sure whether it helped at all, the rice has maybe done too much already. But it removed the smell of the rice. Dunno whether that's pro or contra.

- Burried it in charcoal about two days & nights, credits to DeepRed. Activated carbon that you can get at a store for aquariums where it is used for filters for the water. Got it in granulate/pellet form.

The rice is cheaper, but the carcoal is stronger. If anyone gets a similar problem, feel free to try.

Thanks all of you.
Edited by Fly, 25 Oct 2009, 12:12 PM.
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Walden
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An humble ocarina-player.
My Focalink double has the same smell as the TNG. It might not be any improvement in that regard.
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Fly
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For nothing but Fun
Thank you... Had to be expected I think...

Still, I'm not sure about wheter or not try it with the oven, can any more or less experienced clay-worker maybe give me an advice?
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HieronRemade
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Defender of Hyrule
Word to the wise - people see a post that long and tend to hit the back button...

As far as your problem though I would maybe contact STL or whoever you bought it from and see if they can give you any info. From what people have said in the past, you won't get much out of STL, but it's worth a shot.
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Ōgami Ittō
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Spanish Bombs
Does anyone know if the purple clays are straw fired?

That could account for any stange smells, al though if you already recognize it as that moth ball stuff I doubt its the same..
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AbsoluteZero
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Electrical Engineer
Focalink Double is strawfired and thats why it smells funky...The smell goes away after time, I don't specifically know what Mothballs smell like, but if it was that detrimental to the human body then I doubt any ocarina manufacturer/distributed would use/sell whatever glaze that they're using. If the ocarina had a Naphthalene glazing then, you'd see symptoms like :
Skin contact:

Naphthalene causes skin irritation and in the case of a
sensitized person, severe dermatitis. Lesions clear
spontaneously when the exposure is terminated. Percutaneous
absorption is apparently inadequate to produce acute systemic
reactions except in newborns.
http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/chemical/pim363.htm#SectionTitle:2.2%20%20Summary%20of%20clinical%20effects

I don't think this has ever happened either while someone was playing a purple-clay (Pretty sure you could sue somebody if it did)

Inhalation:

On inhalation naphthalene cases headache, confusion,
excitement, nausea, vomiting and sweating. There may be
dysuria, haematuria and an acute haemolytic reaction. Rarely
optic neuritis is encountered.
3.4 Hazardous characteristics

This compound in a petroleum ether solution will give
off purple fluorescence under a mercury light.

Naphthalene could be used to make the glaze but if it was so detrimental to the human body I doubt they would actually sell/use a clay that did the things I listed above.

-In addition, you need like 2 grams of it for it to be fatal...and thats only fatal to an infant child..Grown humans could take significantly more.

it makes sense to be worried about your health but I don't think worrying about the smell is very rational and I personally think you may be overreacting (but thats just me)
Edited by AbsoluteZero, 14 Oct 2009, 05:28 PM.
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Fly
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For nothing but Fun
@Hieron
I know... But this is a 200€ Question ;) Nothing to skip over.
I contacted STL already concerning the smell but didn't get an answer yet.

@Ogami
To be honest, I'm too young to know the smell of moth balls^^ Some people I know identified the smell and both seemed very sure.

If anyone has one of the red purple clay ocarinas from TNG, maybe he could tell me whether it has a remarkable smell. The Focalink has a two-colored surface, too, and they seem to be the same two colors. So I could use a statement for a ocarina with a different color.

And Edith:
@ Zero:
Thank you very much! :)
Yes, I read about the symptoms, too, and then I didn't know where my headache came from, that's why I layed it asside.
But that strawfire-thesis pleases me :)

You say noone would use a dangerous glazing, well yes, I would not but some people would :/
I really do not mean to offend anyone, but I still have in mind that time when we had litle childrens toys (for 1-2-year-old) here and it was made with a flexibilizer (hope it's the right word) that was really dangerous. I have difficulties to trust asian companies with such topics now.
Edited by Fly, 14 Oct 2009, 05:29 PM.
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Deleted User
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My straw fired Focalink smelled like wood smoke. It was funky.
In the same order, the regular orange alto had no such smell.

Good clay ocarinas should be able to go in the oven, as you said.
I have no idea of the ocarina you own is good enough. Sorry.

You may concider putting the ocarina in a plastic lidded container full of rice.
The grains will absorb anything after a few weeks. You then dispose of the rice.
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AbsoluteZero
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LoL, I love Moonsyne's rice suggestion, this is the second time i've seen it, xD
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Walden
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An humble ocarina-player.
My great grandmother has lived her entire life in a house that absolutely reeked of mothballs, and she's 98 and still able to get out and go to church every week.
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BloodyCadet
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THE Ocadet
Moonsyne
 

You may concider putting the ocarina in a plastic lidded container full of rice.
The grains will absorb anything after a few weeks. You then dispose of the rice.


I still wanna know if i cook the rice.. if it will be edible.. cause bacteria and such dies at certain heat.. <.<
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Ōgami Ittō
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Spanish Bombs
Yeah, but autoclaves heat bacteria to 120-135 degrees to kill bacteria.

Water boils at 100 so its not gonna be enough. Even so, why would you want to?
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Deleted User
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The rice would smell and taste like what it absorbed.
No cooking temps could remove them from the rice.
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Desmřnd
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I think that the smell should go away with time.Maybe it is the smell of the packaging.So its the STL purple clay double huh?Well STL has two different purple clay doubles.

The standard one here:
Posted Image
And this one that I think is straw fired:
Posted Image
Try playing it for a while.I am sure the smell will go away :D -Desmond
Edited by Desmřnd, 15 Oct 2009, 04:07 AM.
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Pen_Anima
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Let me fill the world with art . . . And I shall give you treasures
. . . .. wow . . . . . .>_> . . . . .*just goes and leaves to her numa numa redux*

i could ask at the stl forum for ya, the people there are responsive.

edit: Alright, it's posted up there. Now to just wait for a mod to show or what not.

I'll let you know when I get in touch with someone.
Edited by Pen_Anima, 14 Oct 2009, 10:50 PM.
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Walden
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An humble ocarina-player.
Ōgami Ittō
14 Oct 2009, 07:36 PM
Water boils at 100 so its not gonna be enough.
This threw me for a moment, when I first read it. That's 100C, and not 100F.
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BloodyCadet
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Ōgami Ittō
14 Oct 2009, 07:36 PM
Yeah, but autoclaves heat bacteria to 120-135 degrees to kill bacteria.

Water boils at 100 so its not gonna be enough. Even so, why would you want to?
water begins to boil, but water can get hotter than 100 degrees.. i know this from experiences.. <.<
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Pen_Anima
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Let me fill the world with art . . . And I shall give you treasures
-__-*****

Do you see that emoticon?

. . . .THat is my dissatification.

They were better just not answering it at all . . . . .*sigh* Running into a little . . .difficulty . . . . . . .on getting the answer. Now I'm concerned on buy the stupid oc myself.
You know what? Screw it!?! I've posted that thing FIXING it EVERY EFFING TIME for that ba*** and he DELETES it EVERY SINGLE TIME!!

-_-


I can no longer even THINK of supporting that site anymore.

SOrry, I've tried, but that last post was my last straw. i posted and fixed it like . . .four times and he's just making up rules as it goes. I'm done.
Edited by Pen_Anima, 15 Oct 2009, 01:57 AM.
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Deleted User
Deleted User

I dunno, it make my moderating look SO much more logical, kind, and accepting. :hi:
I honestly did not expect anything more than that from STL-F. Thanks for trying, though.
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Walden
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An humble ocarina-player.
So, the question was just deleted?
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Deleted User
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Repeatedly!

They will cover member's ears and go *LA LA LA* to anything precieved as even remotely negative.
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Walden
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An humble ocarina-player.
I'm amused that the Google ad on this thread is for "Hearing Aid Buyer's Guide."
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Pen_Anima
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Let me fill the world with art . . . And I shall give you treasures
trying . . .on last time . . . . . . . .
Walden, you've probably seen a glance of it once or twice while you were on and OMG He's OFF!! O_O *types faster*
Edited by Pen_Anima, 15 Oct 2009, 02:56 AM.
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ocarevolutionary
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ocarina inventor/designer

To answer the question, the smell is most likely from the protective layer of something applied to the exterior of the oc.
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Pen_Anima
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Let me fill the world with art . . . And I shall give you treasures
It got deleted . . . .again . . . . .

Is anything wrong with this one?


Dear STL,

Recently I was researching on the internet to find more information I could get on a purple clay wpn, the same one that stl sells as of right now. I found some very disturbing information . . .

In my search on this, I found that one owner of their very own stl purple clay had issues with hers and a certain smell. One that much resembled Naphthalin. Naphtalin, on any item, is a form of moth poison, like moth-balls. The main problem was, that this smell wasn't coming from the box? Long term packaging would be understandable. But it was coming from the purple clay itself, emitting the odor. Looking more around on this topic, I found that that particular purple clay owner was not alone in this.

Looking it up, I found, 2 grams of that poison alone coul kill an infant. Not to say a baby could play an ocarina, but that and the side-effects for an adult are nothing short of leaving side-effects on the player. Learning more on the purple clay, I found it requires much breath control and pressure to play it to its best potential. Which would mean inhaling said fumes.

More research showed that some ocarina glazings, washing, cleaning (most likely for packaging and sending over seas would likely add the moth poison to keep insects from crawling around it.) So, it is not unlikely.

I really want to buy this ocarina, but I'm scared as well. Could the staff please, hopfully, clear this up, so I won't feel ill at ease about investing in it? :)


Because that's all I said. . . really . . . . I'm done.
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Desmřnd
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ocarevolutionary
15 Oct 2009, 03:21 AM
To answer the question, the smell is most likely from the protective layer of something applied to the exterior of the oc.
A protective layer of something?Like packaging?

I really dont see the problem with your ocarina having a smell.Sooo....It smells.Just as long as it doesent smell bad I see no problem.But wouldent it be nice if your ocarina had a nice pine or sandle wood scent?
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Krešimir Cindrić


zombiefewd1
15 Oct 2009, 04:05 AM
I really dont see the problem with your ocarina having a smell.
I see a problem. First of all, it smells bad, but, more importantly, it could be dangerous to your health. :/
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King Ocarina
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Pére Poches Drôles
zombiefewd1
15 Oct 2009, 04:05 AM
I really dont see the problem with your ocarina having a smell.Sooo....It smells.Just as long as it doesent smell bad I see no problem.But wouldent it be nice if your ocarina had a nice pine or sandle wood scent?
You really need to stop assuming that because you don't see a problem with something, nobody else does.
Purple Clay smell? I know exactly what you are talking about.

I think recently something about how the PC's are made has changed.

A christmas or two ago I received my purp AC, no smell.

More recently I've acquired the Sop G, Sop F, and the Sop C........ they all have an odd smell, especially the Sop G.

Do I like the smell? Not at all. Am I immediately alarmed by it? Not really.

I'm going to research if there's a way to "absorb moisture and odors" from ceramics. Off the top of my head I'd guess and say putting them in a large container and absolutely surround it with uncooked rice or perhaps baking soda.

-------------
@ Focalink owners

The purple clays don't smell like forte Focalinks, it's more of a chemical smell.
Edited by King Ocarina, 15 Oct 2009, 05:16 AM.
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ocarevolutionary
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ocarina inventor/designer

The chemicals in many lacquer or varnish-type products smell similar to mothballs. The thin protective (or texture) layer I was referring to on the exterior of the oc may be a similar product. I very highly doubt that it is anything harmful, or at least no more harmful than other products you likely use every day.

My advice is to leave it out of its box for a day or so and you may find the offending smell entirely gone. E-mailing STL may be another way to go, though the answer may not always come quickly. Sometimes even my e-mails get lost in the sauce.
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Pen_Anima
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Let me fill the world with art . . . And I shall give you treasures
Already tried -.- *points up to her bujillionth deleted post, fortuanly copied this time* That was on the forums. . . I've also tried calling, but I can't reach anyone. Different time zones.
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Walden
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An humble ocarina-player.
The fact that it's being deleted says that it's been read. The lack of a response (beyond deleting) would seem to indicate an unwillingness to address the issue. Under the circumstances, that would seem to imply they know there's a problem, and don't want to admit it.
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kuraisong
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The "Dark Song" singer
BloodyCadet
14 Oct 2009, 06:55 PM
Moonsyne
 

You may concider putting the ocarina in a plastic lidded container full of rice.
The grains will absorb anything after a few weeks. You then dispose of the rice.


I still wanna know if i cook the rice.. if it will be edible.. cause bacteria and such dies at certain heat.. <.<
And im still wanting to know why you would want to eat that contaminated rice :giveup:
zombiefewd1
14 Oct 2009, 10:17 PM
I think that the smell should go away with time.Maybe it is the smell of the packaging.So its the STL purple clay double huh?Well STL has two different purple clay doubles.

The standard one here:
Posted Image
And this one that I think is straw fired:
Posted Image
Try playing it for a while.I am sure the smell will go away :D -Desmond
Honestly Desmond?

Why would he play it if it smells like and is possibly contaminated with poison? :facepalm:
Edited by kuraisong, 15 Oct 2009, 09:18 AM.
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kissing
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tyrannical dictator

Pen_Anima
15 Oct 2009, 01:22 AM
You know what? Screw it!?! I've posted that thing FIXING it EVERY EFFING TIME for that ba*** and he DELETES it EVERY SINGLE TIME!!

-_-


I can no longer even THINK of supporting that site anymore.

SOrry, I've tried, but that last post was my last straw. i posted and fixed it like . . .four times and he's just making up rules as it goes. I'm done.
Haha, I saw this coming before I read that post.
People could try email, but it didn't work at all in the past when there was a concern about their ocarinas containing lead. Instead, the people who sent the emails were accused of spreading malicious rumors (?!)


I recall my WPN Soprano F from STL having a mothbally kinda smell.
Other people have reported this too in the past.

An official answer from STL would be good.
But such attempts of "covering up" at the forum and lack of satisfactory replies to emails doesn't make it promising.
They seriously need to face up to these things... its like they're hiding something or have no clue themselves :shrug:
Edited by kissing, 15 Oct 2009, 10:52 AM.
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Fly
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For nothing but Fun
I ordered that ocarina not via shopping cart and formular, but per mail, there were some issues. Any email was answered the next night, regarding the different time zones it means they were answered immediately. So, after two days I already knew they are not going to answer. Why should they, they don't earn anything from that...
It does not suprise me they delete the request in their forums. What Pen_Anima posted was diplomatic, thought through, and in no way accusing but asking in the first place. But no discussion, no doubts, only happy sunshine in their forums.
Seems like this is the first and last ocarina I've ever bought there. *joins club of STL-opponents*

But what King said is very interesting. The Sop G, Sop F and so on are glazed in another way and made from other material so it is most likely a chemical treatment after finishing the instrument.
Phantastic -.-

Thought about asking directly TNG. They should know it. But I'm not sure. I would not even find the "contact" button on their site^^

Changed the topics name. Google-friendly.
Edited by Fly, 15 Oct 2009, 05:27 PM.
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Pen_Anima
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Let me fill the world with art . . . And I shall give you treasures
Well . . .I just went and made myself happy last night.

Went and emailed Zack (focalink) about another ocarina that would meet my likes and he TOTALLY responded with a choice Alto c that isn't too expensive :D

I'm happy now.
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Deleted User
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Good and consistant customer service is golden.
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BloodyCadet
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kuraisong
 
And im still wanting to know why you would want to eat that contaminated rice :giveup:

I loves me some rice.. no rice should go to waiste!
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Pen_Anima
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Let me fill the world with art . . . And I shall give you treasures
XD Bad bloody! Bad!
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kuraisong
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The "Dark Song" singer
kissing
15 Oct 2009, 10:48 AM
Kissing
15 Oct 2009, 01:22 AM

They seriously need to face up to these things... its like they're hiding something or have no clue themselves :shrug:


The latter of the two is probably the correct situation.
BloodyCadet
15 Oct 2009, 07:17 PM
kuraisong
 
And im still wanting to know why you would want to eat that contaminated rice :giveup:

I loves me some rice.. no rice should go to waiste!
That's just nasty.. :rain:
Edited by kuraisong, 15 Oct 2009, 08:45 PM.
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Walden
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An humble ocarina-player.
Moonsyne
15 Oct 2009, 07:12 PM
Good and consistant customer service is golden.
Bad and consistent service is aluminum electroplated.
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Desmřnd
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kissing
15 Oct 2009, 10:48 AM

in the past when there was a concern about their ocarinas containing lead.
Containing lead?Isint lead one of the ingredients/components of clay?

To be honest its just a smell I wouldent worry about it.The smell will probably go away with time.
-Desmond
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Krešimir Cindrić


No, clay usually contains no lead (or very little). Glaze can contain dangerous amounts of lead. But pottery which is used for serving food and ocarinas (which you put to your mouth) shouldn't contain any lead in the glaze, because that would be dangerous.

The concern that ocarinas from STL could contain lead in dangerous amounts was raised a long time ago, back on OU, when STL claimed they make their ocarinas and it was discovered that they come from TNG/WPN which was, do to the lack of better information, believed to be in China (and there are examples where products from China contain lead and other hazardous materials). At that time it was a justified concern, because STL was lying about the origin of their products (and someone who is lying usually has a motive for it).

I agree that this smell is probably not dangerous, but I wouldn't be so reckless and dismiss it without any question.
Edited by Krešimir Cindrić, 16 Oct 2009, 10:48 PM.
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hirohiigo
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Double Ocarinist x 2
If it's just a smell, Desmond, why don't they just say that instead of deleting Pen_Anima's posts?

I rather enjoyed that forum for my short visit, but if this is how STL responds to a potential health hazard, I don't see any reason why anyone should ever support them. You can be assured that I'll never buy an ocarina from them again.

I'll try e-mailing them with a similar question. Maybe I can get a response.
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Krešimir Cindrić


I don't think sending emails to them will do any good.

It seems to me that when there is ANY problem or dissatisfaction with STL or their products they always respond by completely ignoring the issue and censoring the one who brought it up. And they continue pretending everything is great and, I guess, even start to believe in it. And if they cannot silence the dissatisfied customer, STL gets overly defensive and accuse them of malevolence and hostility.

It has become a pattern in their behaviour over the years.
Edited by Krešimir Cindrić, 16 Oct 2009, 10:55 PM.
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hirohiigo
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Double Ocarinist x 2
I've sent them this e-mail:

Quote:
 
Hello,

I have been considering purchasing a purple clay ocarina, which STL Ocarinas offers. It sounds nice, it looks nice, and it certainly seems like something I would like to be in my small (but growing) collection of ocarinas. However, while doing research on it, it came to my attention that there seems to be a problem with purple clay ocarinas.

Upon receiving a purple clay double ocarina from STL Ocarinas, one reviewer commented that it had a smell similar to naphthalin, which is a poison used to kill moths. This troubles me, because if that is the case, then I believe it could be hazardous to the player if he is exposed to such a chemical for the extended periods of time one uses to practice playing.

As a concerned buyer who has had a pleasurable transaction with STL Ocarinas in the past, I would like to know if this is a common problem with the purple clay ocarinas that STL supplies, and if it is, I would like reassurance that it is not a health hazard before I continue my consideration to purchase this ocarina.


Now to see if they'll respond. I don't have high hopes after seeing Pen_Anima's attempt at contacting them about it, but if I get a response, then good. If not, I'll definitely avoid supporting them.
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