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Tutorial 1 ~ Molds; Make an ocarina mold with Panch!
Topic Started: 16 Aug 2008, 08:02 PM (19,413 Views)
King Ocarina
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Pére Poches Drôles
Angelodeath
9 Jul 2009, 09:47 PM
How kingocarina? How do you use it?
instead of using the little clay boundary walls dividing the ocarina in half, use flour!

I use a piece of plastic and pound the flour until it's glass smooth. Then I just use a finger or something to make the little key indentations. I scoop a little flour out of where I want the ocarina to go, throw in the ocarina, and smooth around the edges. It saves clay, and after you poured the plaster you just peel the little film of dough off the plaster and voila!
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Panch
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The Whistlemaker

I'll have to try this - great idea!
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A1dan
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Triple Ocarinist
I would assume king's method has a smaller chance of denting the ocarina form. Does the plaster run through the flour, or is the flour completely impenetrable?

Panch, just a question. When you tune your ocarinas before firing them, and you tune it to an Alto C, won't it be sharp after you fire it? Is there any way to guarantee that you can get it exact after firing it?
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Panch
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The Whistlemaker

I have to adjust to this and make them flat. With my current clay, I make it in Bb, which becomes a C after high firing.
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David F.
Will make ocarinas for food!

kingocarina
28 Sep 2009, 02:16 AM
Angelodeath
9 Jul 2009, 09:47 PM
How kingocarina? How do you use it?
instead of using the little clay boundary walls dividing the ocarina in half, use flour!

I use a piece of plastic and pound the flour until it's glass smooth. Then I just use a finger or something to make the little key indentations. I scoop a little flour out of where I want the ocarina to go, throw in the ocarina, and smooth around the edges. It saves clay, and after you poured the plaster you just peel the little film of dough off the plaster and voila!
i gotta see this do you have a picture!??
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King Ocarina
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Pére Poches Drôles
DAVIDxRULEZ
28 Sep 2009, 05:45 AM
kingocarina
28 Sep 2009, 02:16 AM

Quoting limited to 2 levels deep
i gotta see this do you have a picture!??
right now in my life I'm in the process of moving halfway across the country and with that comes a lot of stress and chaos... I can't even imagine where my oc making stuff is at right now, but when I get settled in in my new home I'm going to take ocarina making from the backburner and go full speed ahead.... in about a year or so.
A1dan
28 Sep 2009, 02:34 AM
I would assume king's method has a smaller chance of denting the ocarina form. Does the plaster run through the flour, or is the flour completely impenetrable?
the plaster doesn't mix with the flour as long as you smoothed/compressed the flour. Even if you didn't, I don't think they'd mix but the plaster's surface wouldn't be very smooth/nice.

The moisture from the plaster does get absorbed into the flour a little bit, but from my trials there's only about 2mm of water penetration. The flour/dough skin dries just enough to pull off with ease without being hardened on.
Edited by King Ocarina, 8 Oct 2009, 08:36 AM.
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A1dan
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Triple Ocarinist
Panch
16 Aug 2008, 08:02 PM
With some modification, you can make this into a slip-casting mold! To use this kind of mold, clay slip is poured in, filling the mold completely. As the plaster draws out the slip, it creates a hollow in the middle of the form, making them perfect for ocarinas!
I don't understand. How does plaster draw out the slip?
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Panch
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The Whistlemaker

A1dan
8 Oct 2009, 10:56 AM
I don't understand. How does plaster draw out the slip?
I don't blame you for not understanding! I worded it completely wrong! The plaster actually draws out the WATER in the slip. Plaster is pourous, and sucks the water from the slip, leaving it as firmer clay.

This tutorial, however, is not for a slip-casting method. I just mentioned, for those who know what is is, that with some modifications, the same technique can be used to make a slip-casting mold. :)
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EliteFoamFlyer
Pendant Ocarinist x 5
Could you use Sculpey (ya know polymer clay) to make the ocarina mold so that you do not ruing your actual clay? There are some cons to this.....like its kinda expensive, and it doesnt shape as well. But do you suppose it is possible?
Well I'm not sure if anyone is still following this thread or anything, but I'll just post anyway. So I decided to make a mold last night. I used Sculpey clay and Flour. Well the good news is.....no sticking problems everything came out nicely. Problems I ran into: The plaster came out in a weird way and made like layers....Ill have a picture below. Also the mold itself didnt come out that great, it looks ok in the pictures but there are small bumps and dents in the mold. This is probly due to the fact that i was using scupley clay and its quite difficult to shape.

Picture 1

Picture 2

Picture 3
Edited by EliteFoamFlyer, 20 Dec 2009, 10:10 PM.
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Prism75
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Double Ocarinist x 2
As it is, I'm just too scared to use plaster, yet. I figure when I actually get a good enough ocarina to make a mold of, I'll brave it :) The only molds I've used are half-spheres made from regular clay that I fire to bisque and use as drape molds.

Good job on the ten hole!

Deb
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Peavey
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"JonsOcarina"
Probably a stupid question, but do you have to fire the ocarina before using it as a mold? Or you shape it right then and there with the clay and use the mold?

Love your tutorial Panch! :thumbsup:
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King Ocarina
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Pére Poches Drôles
I thought of another idea, that theoretically should work much better than my original flour idea.

Does anybody remember "Moon Sand"?

I used to play with this stuff, and thinking about it now, it seems like it would be perfect for this application. It's much softer (and thus, easier to push in an ocarina to halfway), it smooths to absolute perfection (and holds that surface much, much better than flour), etc.



If anybody wants to give it a try, I'd like to hear how it turns out.

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Iceyfur
Beginner
Hey, just wondering. What kind've oil are you using to coat it? It says the requirements you need oil, but I'm unsure exactly of what kind've oil you're talking about ><
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iBankai145
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Anime nerd, pianist, budding ocarinist
What kind of plaster did you use to make the mold?
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ZeldaKick
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The Undead Ocarinist
Even though it’s an old thread, and I'm def not the op, I figured I'd answer some questions that I do in for my own ocarinas. In case someone new comes along and reads this one day. =]

Pavey
 
Probably a stupid question, but do you have to fire the ocarina before using it as a mold? Or you shape it right then and there with the clay and use the mold?


I never bake the clay before I use it to make a mold. My mentality is that it will be usable afterwards. But, instead of using my clay for ocarinas, I use Sculpey to make the molds, that way I know for sure that it won’t stick, plus it's lighter, cheaper (if you just get the plain Sculpy and not Super/Sculpy III,) and you can use it many many times to help make the molds.


King Ocarina
 
Does anybody remember "Moon Sand"?


I still have some of that around. I'll have to try it out and post a picture. Although, I think your flour idea is much better, because I could see the plaster grabbing hold of the little sand bits.

Iceyfur
 
What kind've oil are you using to coat it?


I use Vaseline. =] I just brush it on and go.

iBankai145
 
What kind of plaster did you use to make the mold?


I just use regular Plaster of Paris, dry mix, by Dap. You can go to any store (home improvement, craft store, Walmart, Target) and should be able to pick up a jug of it. I get mine for $8 for 8 lbs, which makes over 50 complete molds for me.

It says to make it 2 POP to 1 cold water. Don't measure by eye. POP should dry within an hour, and cure completely in 24. But I hold a mold where I "eyed" the measurements, and then the mold just still held to much water after 24 hrs, which would make it crumble and melt. For mini ocs, I use 12 tbsp pop to 6 tbsp of water, for example.

----

As a new person on the forums, I'm kinda dissappointed that none of these questions were answered earlier. If you are to promote the knowledge of ocarinas, then why delay answering any question? Even if it is just a reference of another thread. =] I know I sometimes get discourage from building something if I don't know any of the answers, like above shown.
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Goudy Stout


Zeldakick, i applaud you for answering all those questions. You shouldn't be disappointed about people not answering as most of the people posting in ocarina making are around the beginning stage, but the ones who have more knowledge either have never made a mold or dont read the forums as much. I for one would like to start making molds, but still enjoy making the ocarinas from a lump of clay as you can refine the shape more that way. I'd like to incorporate some parts of mold ocarina making to 'lump' ocarina making but it might take me a while.

I dont think anyone should be discouraged by 'being in the dark'. When i started ocarina making, there were BARELY any ocarina making tutorials and the ones that were around didn't really give much information. It took me 6 tries to make a fully tuned, non-airy 4 hole pendant, but i was so proud. I eventually refined my techniques that i developed over time and they work pretty well, although i do think it's time to fix up my shape problem, as i dont really like the aesthetics of some of my ocarinas (mainly triple o_O ). I also am learning how to judge the pitch of an ocarina e.g. i want an AC or AG etc. this also comes with experience.
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RJ924
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My ocarina has no hair...either

I'm sorry if this question has already been answered, but what kind of clay do you use for making the ocarina? I read somewhere that there are many different types of clay that people use for different things. I'm a little confused as to which is best for ocarina making. I think we are going to attempt to make some ocarinas of our own. Thank you, everyone, for your input in this thread.
Roger
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Panch
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The Whistlemaker

Roger Jewell
24 Sep 2010, 03:16 PM
I'm sorry if this question has already been answered, but what kind of clay do you use for making the ocarina? I read somewhere that there are many different types of clay that people use for different things. I'm a little confused as to which is best for ocarina making. I think we are going to attempt to make some ocarinas of our own. Thank you, everyone, for your input in this thread.
Roger
I use stoneware clay which I don't fire high, but I'd recommend earthenware clays to everyone else.

Terracotta is popular for making ocarinas. I think Mr. Pacchioni and Fabio Menaglio use terracotta - I think even the inventor of modern ocarinas, Donati, also used terracotta back in the day.
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Krešimir Cindrić


Yes, Pacchioni, Menaglio, Posch, Colombo and many other makers use terracotta. All historical ocarinas from Budrio were also made from terracotta.

Is there any reason why you don't use it, Panch?
Edited by Krešimir Cindrić, 24 Sep 2010, 04:29 PM.
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Panch
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The Whistlemaker

Krešimir Cindrić
24 Sep 2010, 04:29 PM
Is there any reason why you don't use it, Panch?
In my climate, terracotta seems to crack really, really easy. Or perhaps I'm just using it wrong and got dissuaded too early...

That, and I also enjoy the look of white stoneware better.
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Prism75
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Double Ocarinist x 2
Roger, there are many types of clay available, and most will do the job just fine. There is, of course, polymer clay, air-dry, or other oven-bake clay, but these tend to be a little harder to work with (as far as the voicing is concerned), and all of them are more expensive than ceramic clay (which will need to be fired in a kiln for best strength.)

Ceramic clay comes in 3 main categories: Earthenware (which is pretty similar to Terracotta, though there are some differences), Stoneware, and Porcelain (after that comes China clay, but that's another topic.)

Earthenware clay is easily shaped and can come in a few different colors, though most of it will fire up white. You can work with this clay easily, but it also dries out a little quicker. A quick mist with a spray bottle can help, though.

Stoneware comes in many more colors, and may include grog or sand for texture and some give in the clay body. It's not as "elastic", meaning that as you work with it, you won't be able to change your mind as much once you start forming, as cracks will appear and the clay may crack later if you try to correct it at that point. But it's nice for ocarina making in that it's a stiffer clay, so the voicing is easier to work on than Earthenware clay. This clay will fire up white, cream, brown, grey, etc. depending on the kind you buy. It will also shrink a little more than the Earthenware clay, but only by a few percent.

Porcelain is a very white, pure clay. It can be translucent if thin enough and of the right brand (Laguna sells a "Frost" brand which is similar to the Australian "Southern Ice" which is known for it's translucency at 1/4 thickness even). Porcelain is known to be very unforgiving in the sense that it will crack easily if you don't know how to work with it well. Some people LOVE porcelain, some hate it.

Earthenware is the cheapest, Stoneware is next, and porcelain is slightly pricey, especially the more translucent you get.

For all you makers-in-the-making, Yahoo has a group of wonderful, experienced makers here: Ocarina Club

Deb
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TimGreen
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Play what makes you happy. - Achint
Man, this is very useful, I really want to start making ocarinas sometime and so i have been doing a bit of studying so that I dont dive in unprepared, and I think that I will use this method for making the molds! It seems really nice and useful, and if done correctly, i should prevent a lot of possible mistakes.
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Nightshade
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Without music life would be a mistake. (Nietzsche)
Didn't want to start a new thread, so I'll just ask here...

Some of you are using a plastic sheet instead of card board as a barrier for the mold. I'd prefer that too, but so far I couldn't think of something to use for that.
So what are you using?
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OberonOcarinas
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~•Ocarina maker•~

sometimes if I have a plastic container thats used for soap tablets, I'll cut the bottom off and use the plastic walls for my mold.

however most commonly, I use bristol paper and fold it in half (theyre large sheets) and tape the edges. its nice and water resistant and very flexible. Plus its cheap and easy to remove
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spoonyspork
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L'il Tooter
I actually just use small boxes. My shape isn't sort-of ocarina shaped and pretty like everyone else's but it functions and I don't have to worry about leaks or having a ton of clay to build up on first. :)

First half finished: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15770123/2012-03-14%2023.08.15.jpg

Second half setting (the box was too shallow so I had to improvise): https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15770123/2012-03-15%2000.05.12.jpg

(that was my first - since found smaller, deeper boxes, but you can see what I'm talking about there)
Edited by spoonyspork, 22 Jun 2012, 02:13 PM.
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Everett Ocarinas
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aka Kalasinar

I use old advertisement/display posters from my place of work. The card is strong and flexible, and has a glossy sheen to it so it doesn't stick to the plaster when i use it. They don't cost me anything, my manager feels better knowing they don't go to waste, and one poster will make loads of moulds because each poster is so big. It might be worth visiting some local shops in your area and offer to take any of their unwanted posters off their hands. I've tried using carboard boxes as well (cutting off the top and bottom but keeping the sides) but they leaked even with clay being built up around them, so i have never used them again.
Edited by Everett Ocarinas, 22 Jun 2012, 02:36 PM.
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Nightshade
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Without music life would be a mistake. (Nietzsche)
Thanks all. Now I can start looking for something a bit more specific :)
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Hoffman Ocarinas
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Transverse Ocarina Maker
In fact I don't use the technique (discribed by Panch) anymore.
I fill the mold (the 2 halves) completely with clay. I remove them directly and later I carve the clay.

So I use plastic containers to created the 2 halves.
I put the 2 halves of the original model in 2 different plastic boxes and then I pour plaster on them.
Easy and clean ;-)
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OberonOcarinas
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~•Ocarina maker•~

Cedric'- hey I make molds the same way! :)
I only use walls on larger ocarinas that won't fit in my plastic container -_-
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Robert Hickman
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Ocarina maker

I use to plastic sheets improvised from a plastic paper folder and duct tape them together.
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Nightshade
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Without music life would be a mistake. (Nietzsche)
Hoffman Ocarinas
22 Jun 2012, 02:57 PM
In fact I don't use the technique (discribed by Panch) anymore.
I fill the mold (the 2 halves) completely with clay. I remove them directly and later I carve the clay.

So I use plastic containers to created the 2 halves.
I put the 2 halves of the original model in 2 different plastic boxes and then I pour plaster on them.
Easy and clean ;-)
How do you position the edges of the halves inside the container horizontally before filling in the plaster?

Is there an advantage for you to carve the clay, or a reason why you don't use the technique described by Panch?
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JMSound Ocarina
Ocarina Maker
Hello! This is an old forum so I'm not sure if anyone will see this, but I have a question regarding the ocarina model that is used to make the plaster mold. How do you know what size it needs to me to create its first note/ I want to make a plaster mold for ocarinas tuned in Alto C, but I don't know how large the model needs to be. I know that the airway, window, and labium lip all play a part but it's no secret that the larger/smaller the chamber is the lower/higher its pitch is. Any help would be appreciated! :-)
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Robert Hickman
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Ocarina maker

It's mostly a matter of experimentation, although the helmholtz resonator equasion can give you a starting point. Clays shrink as they dry and all of them behave differently, so the mold has to be made bespoque for the clay you use. In the beginning you are best off not trying to make them in a given key, but tuned to itself and sounding all notes.

I wrote a book, 'the art of ocarina making' that covers the basics.

Also making a set of cottle boards is well worth the troubble, it makes mould making *much* easier.
Edited by Robert Hickman, 11 Feb 2015, 10:35 PM.
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JMSound Ocarina
Ocarina Maker
Thanks so much! I'll remember that. Beautiful ocarinas btw!
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Robert Hickman
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Ocarina maker

@JMSound Ocarina no problem.
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stealthheartocarina_z
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Transverse Ocarinist
:muse: I need to try this...
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