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New Ocarina
Topic Started: 4 Oct 2017, 01:17 PM (806 Views)
marek
Pendant Ocarinist
Hello, I'd like to buy ocarina with two octaves at least, which have to be two chambers. I have fallen in love with the idea of harmony playing, but traditional two chambers ocarinas are not very suitable for this.
I found NEW PENDANT DOUBLE OCARINA WITH MAXIMIZED RANGE, which has great range in both chambers.
Do you know anything better (for good price)?
I have found fingering chart, apparently for the older versions, I'd like to know, how the now version is played. Also the price with shipping outside US is not very good.
Is here someone who know more?
Thank you.
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Kitten Forest
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Double Ocarinist x 2
I have an inline double from Hind, and I love it for harmony! One thing I have had trouble with is that if you live somewhere cold (I live in Canada), sometimes the temperature can affect it since it is wooden. It comes with a book that shows how to play songs with 2 part harmony. It is a challenge to play 2 notes at once, but I like it.
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marek
Pendant Ocarinist
Thank you, I've seen this model an it looks nice, but it has much smaller range, it lack some semitones and it is more expensive unfortunately.
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Ocypode
Double Ocarinist
Songbird, Pacchioni and Gosselink also have harmony ocarinas.
I have no ideas of their range though.

Edit: I think there is/was also another American maker that was specialized in wooden harmony ocarina - but I can't remember the name.
Edited by Ocypode, 4 Oct 2017, 06:05 PM.
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jordan.1210
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Transverse Ocarinist x 3
Could you be talking about North Country Workshop, Ocypode?

To my knowledge, I think a Pacchoni multichamber would fit your needs marek. The different chambers were designed to create chords so there is more overlap between chambers (less overall range than traditional multichambers)
Edited by jordan.1210, 4 Oct 2017, 11:39 PM.
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Amerred
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Can't play pendants
I happen to be selling that ocarina from your original post, marek. Can't comment on how shipping will be from the US to you, but I've really been trying to sell it so I'm pretty flexible about the price. PM me if you're interested, I'd be glad for it to find a good home.

edit: As an afterthought, I'll try to chime in with more than just an advertisement. Uh... The Songbird harmony used to be a bit easier to get, a lot of people were selling them a couple years ago. The range for each chamber doesn't seem to be amazing, and truthfully it won't be very impressive for most harmony ocarinas. Since it's meant to play chords and harmonies, each chamber is one hand, so it generally isn't even a full octave. Maybe there are some out there that try to expand the range? I'm not sure. Pacchioni makes wonderful instruments, so I already feel like seconding that suggestion. There are some wooden harmony ocarinas made by US makers, like Hind or North Country Workshop, yeah. I THINK Anita Feng might have made a harmony ocarina as well, but obviously that could be challenging to find since she doesn't make ocarinas anymore.

Anyway, I second the Pacchioni idea. I'll be honest, there isn't much selection for harmonies outside of the US. Maybe not any, besides Pacchioni. Oh, except Gosselink. That's an option. I wouldn't be surprised if Christoph Hense made a harmony, or at least if you could approach him about it. He might be open to it, who knows. Not sure about any makers in Asia for harmonies. You really might have more luck approaching a maker directly and asking about a custom order. There isn't really enough of a demand for harmonies otherwise such that they're regularly featured for normal sale.
Edited by Amerred, 5 Oct 2017, 12:09 AM.
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marek
Pendant Ocarinist
I've sent you a message, Amerred.
Thank you for replies, I looked on all makers, their range is sadly smaller. Pacchioni ocarinas look really great, but the harmony is limited too, as left hand can't play full octave. And it's more expensive
I have one more question, maybe it would be better not to ask, but... I'd like to buy one classic transverse ocarina to play in pubs too, with friends, so it should be something cheap as possible, as the ceramic is fragile. Do you think these 20$ ebay/china ocarinas are capable of unfalse playing? I know the sound can't be very good, but just for the unprofessional playing for fun.
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Soren
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Transverse Ocarinist
@marek
I cannot recommend those really cheap ones, but I can highly recommend the plastic Night by Noble. I think it is the best ocarina around for playing around without concern of breaking, and it has a great sound and quality! If you want a ceramic ocarina, I recommend OcarinaWind for good quality cheaper ceramic.
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Kitten Forest
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Double Ocarinist x 2
Soren
6 Oct 2017, 01:47 PM
@marek
I cannot recommend those really cheap ones, but I can highly recommend the plastic Night by Noble. I think it is the best ocarina around for playing around without concern of breaking, and it has a great sound and quality! If you want a ceramic ocarina, I recommend OcarinaWind for good quality cheaper ceramic.
Are there plastic doubles? The only one I've seen is from STL and I've heard mixed reviews on them. Harmony ocarinas are much harder to come by than just a single chamber AC. Double chambered ocarinas are harder to make and as a result, are less common and more expensive.
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spoonyspork
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L'il Tooter
You might want to look into Songbird's 'Harmony Triple'. It's not the double-sprouted harmony: it's a regular triple, designed in a way to more easily play harmonies/chords.

https://youtu.be/8kvINwYs4CI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gG1ge2zs1g
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Soren
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Transverse Ocarinist
Kitten Forest
6 Oct 2017, 03:28 PM
Are there plastic doubles? The only one I've seen is from STL and I've heard mixed reviews on them. Harmony ocarinas are much harder to come by than just a single chamber AC. Double chambered ocarinas are harder to make and as a result, are less common and more expensive.

Sorry if this was confusing, I thought Marek was asking about a 12 hole ocarina for the cheap one (classic transverse ocarina).
The ones I mentioned are not doubles or harmony ocarinas as Marek originally requested in this thread, but rather 12 hole transverse ocarinas.

@marek
If you meant the $20 double ceramic ocarinas, then ignore the recommendations I gave. I am not sure about the quality of those cheap doubles, but $20 might be worth the risk, especially if you might be able to modify the ocarina yourself to improve quality. It is pretty doubtful they are very good at that price, but it might be a nice option for a cheap ocarina for casual playing.
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Mystic_Ocarina
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Double Ocarinist
marek
4 Oct 2017, 01:17 PM
Hello, I'd like to buy ocarina with two octaves at least, which have to be two chambers. I have fallen in love with the idea of harmony playing, but traditional two chambers ocarinas are not very suitable for this.
I found NEW PENDANT DOUBLE OCARINA WITH MAXIMIZED RANGE, which has great range in both chambers.
Do you know anything better (for good price)?
I have found fingering chart, apparently for the older versions, I'd like to know, how the now version is played. Also the price with shipping outside US is not very good.
Is here someone who know more?
Thank you.
I have so many chine ocarinas sone of tjem cost 12-,16 usd, they are simgle chamber and are good!!
Double ones, I have two chineses one is not bad at all the other is horrible, they are 22usd each one!
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marek
Pendant Ocarinist
My mistake, I asked wrong, sorry. I think I have chosen the harmony ocarina - STL double pendant max.
And the second ocarina I would like to buy is transverse double, due to the range for playing in different keys, with friends (triple are expensive and I think double is good enough). This second ocarina I do not expect to play in harmonies (maybe just a little).
It doesn't have to be ceramic, I heave just thought it has better sound. But maybe I should go for Double Plastic for 40$, if the sound is better than ceramic for 20$ and is more durable.
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JordonMB
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Ocarina Enthusiast
First of all, I am I firm believer in triples over doubles, although you are right, most songs can be played on doubles, and I'm... a bit of a hypocrite, but hear me out! I have a lot more doubles than I do triples and price is the main reason for that, but if I knew what I know now then my collection would be halved and I would be just as happy! If I knew what I know now then I would have bought an alto G triple from Imperial City Ocarina. They sell ocarinas in the "sweet range" and the quality of their instruments have a pretty good reputation to date. Some of the triple ocarinas even have extended range to make them play just over three octaves, and their price is so affordable!
There is actually another route you can take, too! Clacol, another company that makes affordable ocarinas which are a bit pricier then ICO, but let me explain why I bring him up. Imperial city Ocarina only makes ocarinas in Asian fingering style. Claudio makes quad P style ocarinas, which have a lesser range (I think the exact range is 2.5 octaves) but this is a battle of philosophies. I own a Pacchioni quadrupla ocarina tuned in Bb major and it's potential is incredible. Clacol is more affordable than Pacchioni, and if you're looking for something that has intense musical potential than you should definitely consider a P style quad ocarina. If playablility is more your thing then go for Songbird's triple harmony (2.5 octaves), Pacchioni's quadrupla (around 2.5 octaves), or get Clacol's quadrupla, which should be 2.5 octaves. Clacol also makes triples (three octaves?) which have been compared to be similar to the fabled Maparams, and they are much more affordable than his quads simply because quads are time consuming and complicated.

Marek! I actually have STL's triple plastic ocarina. Be aware that plastic ocarinas are always going to sound very airy, which simply means that you hear a loud wind sound which is VERY noticeable when compared to clay ocarinas, and I found that plastic is less predictable, or sporadic, by which I mean that maintaining a clean sound is... I don't want to say it's impossible but it's much more difficult than it should be simply because the material isn't very suitable for clean, pure notes. Plastic has this airy, light sound, with a unique frequency. Not everyone likes it, especially when compared to clay. I was thinking about it today. I've compared the plastic triple to my Forte, and to Songbird's triple harmony, and what I've realized is that the heavier the ocarina the more powerful the sound, and with that power comes stability when playing a note loud or quiet. It's really hard to explain (at least to me it is) because you'd really have to hear it to understand. If I were you I would just save up the money for high quality ocarina. I've spent way more money on ocarinas than I could have imagined when I first started collecting, and the truth is that I would have been more than happy buying just one, really expensive quad, from Focalink instead of the route I've taken.

Hey! Look into buying from Imperial City Ocarina. I had just ordered a quad from them a week ago and am still waiting for it. Their prices are cheap but don't let that fool you. Bill boasts that the quality of his ocarinas may even be superior to many of the established ocarina producers on the market, and he said this when we talked about the quality of his quads in particular. Quads are very complicated to make correctly and he says it's very good but I'll see soon enough, anyways. I think the only downside to Imperial City Ocarinas is that their finishes stain fairly easily because of they use some sort of wax, not entirely sure if this is still a problem but they got a bad rap for this, which means that the finish slightly changes color primarily around the finger holes from lots of playing. This appearance change is already happening to my Takashi double, (the pangs! Most likely from mouthwash, or perhaps just from chamber switching) but the change in appearance isn't too noticeable or even important.
If you want to change the appearance of an ocarina to say, make the finish more durable, I've seen some excellent work done by Tina on some ocarinas as large as a triple bass! Very impressive. I hear the work is quite good and she charges a fair price. If you talk to her then she would definitely help you out. I spoke to her on Facebook after reaching out to the ocarina network members there and she was very helpful in getting me in contact with Bill, and she was just overall very pleasant to deal with.

Oh, and just to clarify on how cheap we're talking about... Focalink sells their quad ocarina from their site for $1450 USD, and it includes a carrying case, a polishing cloth, and this metal thing to clean the inside of the mouth piece. Focalink's instruments are definitely top notch so they charge whatever they think is fair. Shipping is also free.
Imperial City Quads on the other hand cost as little as $185 USD and from what I hear the quality is very good, probably not as good as Focalink, but still, just look at the price differences. Purchase includes a little padded pouch which is just useful enough to keep any dust or dirt from getting on it, yet it is definitely not great for safe storage but it's nice to get at least something! Their medium priced shipping option was $30 USD or so.

Yeah, as far as dropping your ocarina... I've heard of this happening but I really wouldn't worry about that. Yes, if your drop a clay ocarina, or even a wooden one, then it'll likely be horribly damaged. I for one have never dropped an ocarina, and am horrified at the thought. If you're careful then dropping them should never happen. I guess a plastic ocarina would be good to have if you have clumsy hands, or you're playing while totally wasted, which really isn't good for sanitary reasons... Bacteria in your ocarina and that jazz...
On another note, I think Tina could repair your ocarina if you happen to break it. Not too sure how this process is done or how many people are doing it.
As far as harmonies... I still haven't developed a skill for harmonizing with Songbird's triple harmony or Pacchioni's quadrupla, but that'll come with practice. I've actually just taken advantage of Songbird's "AutumnLeaves" 15% discount in order to buy their double harmony in G. Definitely having high hopes for that because you can play an octave in each hand, although I couldn't tell you what else is out there om comparison, you know, price and quality. On another note, purchase comes with a protective case! This thing looks so easy to break, I'd be pretty hesitant to buy one without a case included.
Oh yeah, I should clarify the octave thing for the double harmony in G. They are tuned one octave apart so you could play it as a double ocarina if you wanted, although this really isn't what it was designed for. It has a range of two octaves and share like, two or three notes? Not sure.
Edited by JordonMB, 8 Oct 2017, 04:19 AM.
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Ocypode
Double Ocarinist
About plastic double and triple see also this option:

http://theocarinanetwork.com/topic/7111738/1/#new

But see also this:
http://theocarinanetwork.com/single/?p=8421788&t=7859428

I'm slowly considering the purchase of a multichamber myself... but I'm not there yet.
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spoonyspork
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L'il Tooter
A note! I am Tina from ICO. I'm pretty active here and Facebook. Feel free to ask me any questions in either place. I like to help out, and will hear out what you're looking for in an ocarina and make suggestions. People can vouch that I'm just as likely to recommend another brand if I figure out that's that characteristics you're looking for. I have tried a huge number, and though I'm not a great player I'm pretty good at objectively saying what general characteristics this or that brand has. I haven't tried the cheap doubles (probably should!), but have heard they're generally 'okay', especially in the lower chamber, and if you're willing to try modding they'd probably work out even better.

I can also refinish other brands, though after a couple small issues (with ICO's that had been fired to a lower than expected temperature before getting to me) I'm a bit leery of firing someone else's ocarina. More comfortable with painting those instead. (and I *will not* fire a maparam, lol). Ironically, the super-cheap black and smoke fired ocarinas from Amazon take *really well* to re-firing, and just a little tweaking with the tuning later you get something much more playable and higher in quality.

I'm also getting a rather large supply of ICO's later this month, and will have one or two of basically all of the multi-chamber options after that, other than the TBC Extended range (I will have TBC's though). :)
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teddeler
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wonderland commuter
marek
7 Oct 2017, 12:36 PM
My mistake, I asked wrong, sorry. I think I have chosen the harmony ocarina - STL double pendant max.
Sorry for joining the discussion late. I own an STL double pendant max and have had great fun playing it. However, it only has limited use as a harmony ocarina because of the position of the holes. It's almost impossible to cover the inside holes without also covering or shading the outside holes. Some note combinations are possible, some are not.
For a true-harmony two-octave ocarina I'd recommend the Songbird harmony doubles (the 'double-sprouted' ones). I have the one in C and it has a very sweet tone.
My personal preference is for harmony ocarinas tuned in fifths or fourths rather than octaves but you won't get the two-octave range you want out of those.
Edited by teddeler, 9 Oct 2017, 02:28 PM.
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marek
Pendant Ocarinist
Thank you for comprehensive replies, you are great community.
Jordon, Songbird's triple harmony, Pacchioni, they are all great, but the thing is, ocarina won't be my primary instrument, the idea is just have ocarina for fun, maybe in future I will have needs.
I know in comparison to other instruments, these prices looks really low, nevertheless, I do not mean to play professionally now, I like ocarinas for their size, sound and appearance, I'd like to bring ocarina on actions with friends, on neck or in pocket, and play some folklore, and you know, it's much more sexy than recorder :) I assume double is sufficient for me, on Youtube the the plastic STLs sound good enough, and I think plastic would be better for my needs - I may be wrong of course, and maybe some day I'll buy ceramic. The only ocarina I have is very old Fiehn, gaven me by my grandfather, something like small family heritage.
Another reason I wouldn't like to spend much - I had bought new phone in August, fragile, after month it dropped twice, so I'm using my four years old one already, which has display still absolutely fine.
I also need ocarina in C, as I don't like to transpose (I have to transpose to Bb on my other instruments..). Two octaves range for playing in different keys, G and D primarily.
Ocypode, so what found out is that Bon Solist are better. Well, maybe. :)
You are very kind, there is just bit problem with shipping, as I'm from Europe and all that non business postages are unfortunately not low. (You know, paying half of the price of ocarina for shipping...)
teddeler, this is very important, I had thought about it but I hoped it would be possible, Songbird looks bit ugly for me, but that is not important of course, another fact is that it looks extremely fragile. The total range of double harmony may be not so important... I wanted to play something like Christmas carols fully harmonically, e.g.
Spoiler: click to toggle
but now I'm looking there are more tones I had thought, so it is probably impossible, without going octave lower. Hard to choose something for playing polyphonic.
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Kitten Forest
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Double Ocarinist x 2
I have played the Christmas song We Three Kings on my Hind as it came with the music. If it wasn't so cold where I live, I would play it more. I'm looking into getting an ICO triple bass C, but I don't know if it would be too big.

The thing I like about my Hind ocarina is that it is small and easy to play, but the downside is that since both of the chambers are in different keys and it gets a lot more confusing.
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spoonyspork
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L'il Tooter
@Kitten Forest -- if it helps, I've attached some size comparisons :) One is a TBC, DAG, and an SC pendant ... and then the pre-finished SC pendant next to an AC pendant, with a US Penny and 1 EU coin for scale.

@marek -- in EU, you can still get focalink for not such a bad price (especially when you take shipping into consideration). Normally I'd say go to Johann Rotter, but he's sold out at the moment, so here's this: https://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_ac_stein_double_ocarina_reg.htm?sid=271d65acd632a79f2eeea2f0558f334e

With ICO, if you emailed Bill, there is a 'mini DAC' that fits in a pocket. He lives in China so shipping may be a lot less expensive ordering direct through him rather than from the site. You can see it here (it says sold out because he is no longer regularly stocking in the US - I am slowly taking over that role - but you can still order direct from him :) ) -- http://imperialcityocarina.com/alto-double-chamber-mini-key-of-c.html

Most multi-chamber plastics out there right now sound pretty bad. I'm hoping some day there will be one as good as the single chamber Night by Noble. But right now, most (all?) of them are quite airy, and have very bad condensation issues.
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marek
Pendant Ocarinist
Thank you, yeah, I know Thomann, in fact, it has more expensive shipping to my country, which is right beside Germany, than from US STL :D
This mini DAC looks pretty nifty.
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spoonyspork
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L'il Tooter
marek
12 Oct 2017, 08:50 PM
Thank you, yeah, I know Thomann, in fact, it has more expensive shipping to my country, which is right beside Germany, than from US STL :D
This mini DAC looks pretty nifty.
That's crazy! Where in the EU are you by chance? I know of makers in France, the Netherlands, and Italy as well. They all make doubles, though I think the one in NL only makes double harmonies.
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marek
Pendant Ocarinist
I'm in Czech Republic, well, the shipping cost bit less at Thomann (15€ vs 20$), but is free from 200€, while STL has free shipping from 100$.
And I think in my country there are no ocarina makers, but the shipping is not expensive, except for Thomann.
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marek
Pendant Ocarinist
Hello, so I bought the cheapest two chamber ocarina, and yes, it is not good instrument. The tuning is out of way, second chamber is totally out.

But I have another question. I like to bend notes on other instruments, it can be nice, but... On this ocarina, it is not bending halftone. I can play like 8 halftones on one fingering, depending on the strength of blow. And I have not so good ears to play in pitch, so when I play something, after some time I can end in different key, and my ears are good enough to hear it is not right...
As I saw this review, it is apparently not problem of cheap ocarinas only. And it is essential for me to play in tune, I'm not sure if I could learn it by time.

So my question is, if there is some ocarina, which I can play in tune. Like, let's say recorder, where when you try hard, you bend tone by half. Thank you.
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Ocypode
Double Ocarinist
I'm surprised that the sound of your ocarina is still good enough more than 2 semitones above or below the note indicated by the fingering.
When I tried to do that, the sound was muddy and unstable when underblown too much, and so airy when overblown too much.
I would say that one of the clue that I'm in tune is when the sound of the ocarina is nice to hear.

I really suggest practising regularly with a tuner, doing scales, until you manage to have the notes in ear. I did just that for months, and that really helped me. Now I don't do that anymore, and apparently I'm in tune, or not too far off.

If you want to look for a new ocarina, I can't really say. Maybe there is a difference between low and high breath ocarina. Maybe one category has more limited note-bending capacities. I don't have enough ocarina to try and compare.
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Whynaut
Inline Ocarinist x 2
Hello. I’m really late to this discussion but I had some thoughts on harmony ocarinas. Since that’s what brought me here too. I’d recommend Gosselink because they’re stunningly beautiful and wonderful sounding. But I also ordered from a gentleman named terry Riley who makes “structural” harmony ocarinas in England. That said I’m currently waiting for his next batch. Finally, there’s Kinfolk Ceramics in the U.S. who just made three harmony instruments.
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