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Vibrato; Advice?
Topic Started: 8 Jun 2008, 08:15 PM (8,449 Views)
Pandaman
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part panda, part mudkip, all me

So I heard from most of the videos on youtube that a bunch of you have vibrato pretty much under control.... Just how the heck do you do it? I tried lots of things, but it never comes out as the smooth vibrato I hear in the vids... Mine sounds all jumpy and icky, to be honest it sounds a lot worse than just regular playing... You guys have any tips?
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DeepRed
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Taking a break from Signature requests
Is that the 'humming' effect? I'd love to get that one pinned down too......
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Deleted User
Deleted User

It is best to post examples of what you are trying to achieve.
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Myung
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= Mighty Mohawkus =
Yeah same here, I would love to learn "vibrato"
It might help if I actually knew what it sounds like though.
And ofcourse how to (re)produce it. -_-
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Ocarikun18
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Secret Dream Hunter Extraordinaire
Vibrato is the wavering sound that singers and wind players do as a sort of accentuation. Usually done on long notes and stuff. At first I thought it was just a matter of constricting and relaxing the esophagus, but when I tried it was more staccato -_- and sounded icky. So yeah, I really hope someone could give tips on how to do it right (share your :zelda: :triforce: )
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Deleted User
Deleted User

I can trill just fine.
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shadowyi
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dysfunctional family
I'll do some shameless self promotion here and post my latest one as an example: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WbpiKKW0XE4

I'm not sure how I developed it, it can naturally after years of singing and flute playing. But to describe what I do, it's a very finely controlled vibrating of your throat, the part of your soft palate that it above the end (not the tip!) of your tongue. I use the base of my tongue to vibrate, making it 'pulse' and also carefully controlling my air.
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kissing
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tyrannical dictator

It's a skill that you have to develop over a long period of time. You have to keep reminding yourself that you're trying to learn to vibrato. A good way is to listen to the vibrato of others and try to replicate that sound in your own way. Because in truth, everyone produces tone differently and thus have a different way of vibrato-ing (this applies to singers too, since all have unique voice).

It took me a while to get used to vibrato as well. I got it from my experience with singing (I'm not a good singer, but I enjoy it very much and try my best to sing heartily) and trumpet.

With improved breath control and familiarity with the variability of the ocarina, hopefully vibrato will become like second nature. I'm actually not sure "how" I do it, because I just do it as it was a result of much experimentation and adaptation. But it is basically what Shadowyi described (OMG SHE'S IN THE VIDEO O_O!!!).

I don't use the tongue that much, it's mainly a combination of controlling the air source (diaphragm, or air in your "tummy") and leaving your throat wide opened/relaxed. I have had 2 ways of vibratoing - I used to really constrict my throat and use my throat a lot, but I have changed my methods since that didn't create the sound I wanted.

Musical technique is something that constantly changes and improves over the lifetime :D


The basics of it is good breathing technique, and as long as you keep striving to achieve it, you will achieve it!

Here is some performance advice from Kenji
http://www.fl-oca.com/eng/ocarina3.htm
He emphasising mastering the resonating technique to control the ocarina's tone, and I agree with him :D
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shadowyi
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dysfunctional family
Quote:
 
A good way is to listen to the vibrato of others and try to replicate that sound in your own way.


Oh yes I definitely agree. That was how I originally picked it up as well, no wonder I couldn't really explain it. :D I'll emphasize kissing's point to breath from your diaphragm, don't just take shallow breaths with your lungs. You won't be able to play songs beautifully that way.
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Pandaman
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part panda, part mudkip, all me

It sounds so difficult T.T Thanks for all the advice though guys!
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ImmortalOffspring
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One with the floor
Due to my experience with the Tuba, I usually produce vibrate through use of my abdominal muscles. I *think* (Hard to explain) I also move my lower jaw up and down slightly. You want to increase the air pressure just a bit, so you can slide the tone ever so slightly up and down. But I usually do a vibrato with a lower frequency when playing the lower notes, and a higher frequency for the higher notes.

For some strange reason, playing the tuba and playing the ocarina is to very different things. But a few techniques is transferable between the two.

*Shadow's in the Vid.
:fly: :excited:
*
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Pandaman
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part panda, part mudkip, all me

I tried using my jaw but I need more practice if I want to make it work >.< it sounds very skippy now, it jumps up and down instead of rolling smoothly....
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ImmortalOffspring
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One with the floor
Took me 7 years off school band practice. :D

So don't be discouraged if it's hard to accomplish. :thumbsup:
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Pandaman
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part panda, part mudkip, all me

I'm not that patient xD I prefer to be able to do things first try xD Oh well, guess I'll keep practicing :)
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shadowyi
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dysfunctional family
Yeap it's supposed to sound up and down, but a smooth flowing up and down.
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Pandaman
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part panda, part mudkip, all me

mine kinda goes "ooyooyooyooyooyooyooyooyoo" instead of "ooooooooooowooooooooooooowoooooooooooowoooooooooo" xD sounds crazy, but that's just what it sounds like. Doesn't sound very pleasant at all, unless you wanna make some weird song xD
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kissing
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tyrannical dictator

Keep trying! I started like that too! :D

You've made a good start in at least getting the ooyooyooyooyoyoo :D
Perhaps, try to use them in songs?

When I was just starting vibrato for the first time, I had trouble fitting them into songs (such as purposely using them everywhere, making the song sound weird). But it really helps :D
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Pandaman
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part panda, part mudkip, all me

Well I figured I'd just try and learn it separately first, and then stick it into songs xD
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shadowyi
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dysfunctional family
In the beginning, start off with using vibrato in the long notes, especially the ones at the end of long phrases. Then you can start working it in at other parts in the song.
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Pandaman
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part panda, part mudkip, all me

First I want to learn it without songs. Just play one long note vibrato. Then slowly work it into songs, starting with the long notes and moving slowly to include the shorter notes as well...
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Deleted User
Deleted User

I'd recommend trying the singing exercises. They're fun!

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andrewasmith1
Pendant Ocarinist x 3
http://ocarina.c2j.org/ocarina-music-vibrato.html

i found this article on how to do vibrato
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Pandaman
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part panda, part mudkip, all me

Awesome! I'll definitely try it...
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lamparin1905
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Tomato's Young Padawan
i dont know why, but for me, it's easier to make vibrato with my soprano ocarina rather than with my alto c...

is there any argument that explains this?
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shadowyi
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dysfunctional family
When I sing, it's also easier for me to have vibrato in my high notes. It has to do with what part of your body is producing the sound. The further placed in the front of your head the sound is, the easier it is to vibrate. It's a similar case with air, for me at least.
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Ocarikun18
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Secret Dream Hunter Extraordinaire
hey, andrewasmith1, that article helped, I think I'm starting to get the hang of it, now all I have to do is be able to adapt it to songs once i get better :playoc:
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kissing
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tyrannical dictator

lamparin1905
Jun 11 2008, 08:33 PM
i dont know why, but for me, it's easier to make vibrato with my soprano ocarina rather than with my alto c...

is there any argument that explains this?

Generally speaking, Soprano ocarinas are easier to control the tone than in Alto C ocarinas. Perhaps because Soprano's generally use less air?
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Pandaman
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part panda, part mudkip, all me

Soprano's are also a lot easier to get proper notes out of. It's easier to get clear notes on my plastic 6 hole soprano than on my clay 12 hole tenor...
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Myung
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= Mighty Mohawkus =
I've been practicing a little on vibrato lately.
And I'm noticing that I'm using my abdomin/abdominal muscles in the process.
Is this a good way to produce vibrato and control breathing in general?
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kissing
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tyrannical dictator

Myung
15 Jun 2008, 12:55 PM
I've been practicing a little on vibrato lately.
And I'm noticing that I'm using my abdomin/abdominal muscles in the process.
Is this a good way to produce vibrato and control breathing in general?
Using the abdomen and the body (tummy) is the best way!
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Myung
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= Mighty Mohawkus =
Okay good, atleast I now know I'm on the right track =D
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Kajalamorth
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That guy on the left
I dont understand... can someone help... I want to make my ocarina playing sound better. Even though my parents say im good I want to get better.
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shadowyi
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dysfunctional family
Well, what do you need help with? There's been a lot of good advice and links in this thread already.
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Pandaman
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part panda, part mudkip, all me

I guess it just goes to show playing the ocarina is a workout. We should definitely have an ocarina exercise routine xD Work out all the muscles you need to play :pirate:
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Kajalamorth
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That guy on the left
Hmm I just dont know what to look for... like the sound.

I think I got it but it sounds like this "ooyooyooyooyoo" is it right? If how much more work should I do on Vibrato. But it does make the songs I play a little better.
Edited by Kajalamorth, 20 Jun 2008, 04:42 PM.
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shadowyi
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dysfunctional family
Erm, you can click on the link to my video I posted on the first page. The vibrating sound you hear on my long notes is vibrato.
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Kajalamorth
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That guy on the left
Okay I think I got but I think do ,but I dont realise it, I recognise the sound but I dont how I do it I think I use my diathram and jaw.
Edited by Kajalamorth, 20 Jun 2008, 07:53 PM.
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Ocarikun18
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Secret Dream Hunter Extraordinaire
I've been practicing it a lot and I think I figured out how to do it comfortably :thumbsup: but, yeah, it's a little hard to explain any more than what's already been said. Just focus on finding your diaphragm with the laughing (even though it's a little silly imo :>_>;: ) and then while you play or sing, just try to repeat the same motion while playing the note, or holding the note. So I guess it's best to start off doing it with long notes so that you don't worry so much about losing time, or about doing something else, etc. From what I've noticed, the jaw really doesn't have an affect on the "diaphragmic vibrato" but maybe there's a different type using the jaw...sort of in a :chew: motion, changing the volume of air available in the mouth :think: anyway, I hope that helps some, I don't know how else to really describe it :)
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shadowyi
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dysfunctional family
You guys should post some sound samples, I'm curious to see what people have learned according to the advice found here.
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Kajalamorth
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That guy on the left
shadowyi
23 Jun 2008, 04:37 AM
You guys should post some sound samples, I'm curious to see what people have learned according to the advice found here.
Thats a good idea.
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Remagoen
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Inline Ocarinist x 5
When I first started trying vibrato, I was using my lungs and/or throat to get the sound. I could get the first few pulses out (which sounded weak), but I'd eventually choke and fail which cut the note short. Because my girlfriend is a flute player, she told me to do it from my stomach. When I try it now, the pulses sound more even, and I can sustain it a little longer, but I still choke or just fail to continue the vibrato, but continue the note.

I have a feeling I'm almost there, but I haven't really improved much from when I started the new way. It's aggravating me!
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ubizmo


Try this: Place your hand about three inches in front of your lips. Blow on your hand and make "gusts", that is, stronger puffs of air, rhythmically. But don't interrupt the air flow. Just make rhythmic gusts in the air flow. Start slow. If the air flow stops, in between gusts, you don't want that. Keep it slow until you can do it steadily for lungful after lungful. Then make the gusts come more frequently. Continue to do it so that you can keep the air flowing through the gusts. You can practice this way anywhere, without disturbing anyone. Purse your lips a bit to create a bit of back pressure, similar to an ocarina's.

It shouldn't take years, or even months, to learn vibrato. The main thing is to keep your windway open; don't let your glottis close it. If you do, you'll have the sensation of making a tiny "ahem" cough, and you don't want that. Just work on rhythmic gusting against your hand before you think about doing it with an instrument. The whole point about using your abdomen is to keep your glottis relaxed and windway open, rather than using the glottis to control the air flow.
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subakuryu
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INCOMING!!!
Really? I mean, for me it feels like I'm micro slurring my air output by using my throat. :s basically for me, you know how one can slide his or her voice from one note to the next, be it either down a step or up a step. For me vibrato is just changing those long slides to quick "mini" slides up and down.
Edited by subakuryu, 11 Dec 2008, 03:08 AM.
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kissing
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tyrannical dictator

there are different types of vibrato produced in different ways.

However, the recommended best way to produce vibrato on instruments like ocarinas (as well as in singing) is to use your diaphragm, not your throat/lungs. This usually sounds better.
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sirhalos
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I disagree with Kissing but I think it's depends on the player. I use my throat but as Kissing will tell you that is the way you have to do it on the sax but not the way to do it on a trumpet. Since he came from trumpet that is probably why he does it with lungs and since I came from sax I'm biased to the throat. I think the throat is just harder to learn, understand, and control because you need a lot more air control or the tone can get all messed up.

I'll post a video at some point to give an example because I didn't find any really really good examples just ones where there was different air control the whole time instead of using at just some points and controlling the speed of the vibrato. I keep try doing videos for things including reviews but I'll do 60 takes because I keep doing something wrong and give up haha.
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