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| Docjazz4's withdrawal from OU | |
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| Topic Started: May 5 2008, 09:11 PM (1,646 Views) | |
| Chazz | May 7 2008, 06:34 AM Post #31 |
Old Oc
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So he is leaving the forum to worship a mythe.. Hell, that makes a lot of sense! |
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| mehido | May 7 2008, 06:56 AM Post #32 |
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Old Oc
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To kissing: I view this as an outsider looking in, and without bias. As expressed previously, my feelings may never reciprocate those involved because of my distance from the occurring events. I only respond based on what I have read: from both UO and TON. I defend Docjazz on the grounds of experience and observation with small communities such as this. Such a schism often results in a slowing of overall growth, and is often mortal to a process. To stevtomato: If both sides are at some sort or fault, for better or worse, should not both sides hold some sort of responsibility towards reconciliation? I know I'm only posting here and not UO (sadly, I have very little free time recently, and have only begun to experience an excess of it) but it seems this forum sees much more traffic (active users), and holds the keys to a combined effort. This forum still houses the accusations of guilt towards Docjazz in its announcement section. Even though these findings seem just (as exposing most vigilante acts would), people who roam both forums soon find themselves picking sides: UO or TON. Does this not further lead to a divide? I'm to here to say Docjazz is a saint: he is human, and humans are always capable of evil. But to not forgive any act, however great or small, to someone who helped to create an online community such as this seems far fetched. To err is human, to obey is mechanic, And my bias of the information only stems from other hoaxes that I have witnessed... again, that is not to say there is no truth in your claims, however many questions about said information could be raised. If one has basic understanding of networking within a college setting, then one can assume that most campuses across the US (I know most around here anyway) share connectivity through a router. This means many users share a single IP address, one that will resolve to the same location (a university in Texas, for example). Also, it is entirely possible to spoof an IP address, or edit a webpage to display the information you want through HTML. My apologies, but I've been around the net a few too many times to trust information such as this at first glance, Regardless of the validity of said information, and as stated previously, does it truly aid in the betterment of the community? It seems to me to add a conspiracy element to the picture and scare new members away with the hope they can avoid being caught in the middle. And I agree, we should speak of music. But while messages such as this continue to float between communities and further distance them, how can we. Such matters are difficult when left unresolved, and a certain degree of bitterness can develop. |
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| Moonsyne | May 7 2008, 07:14 AM Post #33 |
Creatively Processing
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I see this as a resolution to a previous tension. I can understand how somebody new to the forum can feel the way that you do. Although it could have been an ideallic conflict resolution, what transpired resulted in a solid bonding of a cummunity. It is sad that new members wandering in might be wary because of this thread, we should not invalidate the those feeling by removing it. I wish that it will slowly die down on it's own with no need for such actions as removing or locking. They have formed such a negative picture in my mind of domineering intolerance due to recent events. |
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| kissing | May 7 2008, 07:23 AM Post #34 |
The Whistleblower
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I think you are misinterpreting the situation. This "tension" has been around for a long time now, and finally we have been able to resolve it. The problem is not unresolved for any of the existing members, so I don't really see how it should be a big problem for new members. I think your misunderstanding arises from trying to associate this happening with other events/experiences you have had in the past elsewhere. Our evidence is pretty solid, given the fact that we've confirmed it with other sources independent from us AND Docjazz himself, has admitted in several incidences via email and public messages admitting to have read our private discussions in the Admin-only forum. This does not correlate at all to your theory that the hacking was all faked. Furthermore, as I said on my first post of this topic that you may or may not have read - it would have been better if Docjazz had been more open about the facts, than leave things unclear and hazy at OU with his very vague "last post" referring to "rumours" :unsure:
As far as I can see, there are no "unresolved" matters at TON. OU appears to be keeping quiet about these matters, and that is their choice. But I guarantee you, if you confronted this issue with a moderator or administrator of OU who has been keeping up with the events, he would not be able to deny what we have found at TON. When stevtomato talked about 'faults on both sides', he was simply going the extra mile for peace and refers to the arguments that occured prior to this matter (which were merely sharing opposing opinions and disagreeing with eachother). However, the issue of our forum's admin/moderator board being breached is something different entirely and I think it has been dealt with as it should have. That said, I do take your concerns that having this information posted can be perceived badly by uninformed new members. It is in our best interest to arrange with the leaders of OU for reconciliation. Afterall, the problems have only existed between Docjazz and TON members, not between OU and TON. None of our members were hated on OU, in fact a lot of TON's full time members were the most appreciated members at OU before coming to TON. Docjazz may be the creator, but he does not equal OU. We still stand by the decisions we have made against the offences that have been linked to Docjazz. Whether he apologises to us is his decision. Best Regards, Sam. |
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| stevtomato | May 7 2008, 07:23 AM Post #35 |
The Terrific Tomato
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I'll have to say again that I still do think that David is not entirely in the fault. Such information in our announcement section has already been posted and we have no intentions to pull it down because we have decided to put it up there. We are responsible for giving such information. Picking side issue, I still do think that people can come to both. Again, I have to remind you that we used to go to both forums. Even sam (Kissing) used to go the Ocarinas United, amongst many other TON admins+mods. It is possible to be together. Our plans before launching TON was to put links in both forums to each other. Unfortunately, that seems a bit far fetched now ever since David got the access to the part of the forum that was only for Admins and Moderators of TON to see, before TON was even launched to the public. Naturally, if any opportunity of having the unity in diversity between OU and TON arise, we would embrace it. That said, I have to say that some of the admins and moderators of OU had said our side of the story and apologised to David. I do not want him to resign from OU and I do hope that he changed his mind. I don't really care anymore about IP addresses and the proofs we have. If that is David or not David, I don't care and I stand by my belief that I do not agree with that part of the thing he did. Other than that, I should say that I had started liking him, when talking with him and Sam on the night he politely asked Sam to leave OU, despite the differences we had. And yes, I agree that it is nearly impossible for some people to ignore this issue. I, however, have done my best to handle this situation. I don't think it's wise to close and delete these topics, and yet, I don't think it's wise to let it continue too. On top of that, as the other mods/admins had said, I think this is a resolved issue. I want to write an email to Docjazz about his resignation from OU. I will post them here when it's done. Other than that, I hope for the reconcilliation between OU and TON. |
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| teidon | May 7 2008, 07:50 AM Post #36 |
 
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Docjazz were probably the biggest reason why I got in to ocarinas. His talent kind of like sold me. Of course Zelda had it's own part, but when you hear someone playing the real instrument and is actually really good at it, it makes a big impression to you. But then, Docjazz's actions as the leader/admin of OU forum has greatly reduced my respect for him. All the mindless bannings etc. To mehido: I do agree with your opinions. But there's more to the story than you seem to know. For example Docjazz's biasment towards STL Ocarinas. I know that everyone is always biased for something and that we are all just humans, but Docjazz let his biasment affect his moderation in OU forum - He for example banned a certain member because of that. Though that member did have his own role in the banning too, but still I'd say he were banned because he didn't promote STL as much as he "should have" but he instead "promoted" other ocarina makers too. Also your point about networking is very much true. It's true that everyone in one campus might be using the same IP, but the thing here is that this so called "hacker" were using two totally different IPs (one starting with 58 and other with 24) and both of those IPs are connected to Docjazz in more than one place. But even if Docjazz had nothing to do with the "hacking" how did he get the information that is only available for admins/mods of TON? He has said in more than one place that he has "discovered, the leaders of TON have been badmouthing me and the Oc community for several months now" (direct copy from one email he send to admins/mods of OU forum, I'm mod there). Well, one of the admins/mods of TON could ofcourse have told him... but still, nothing gives him reason to ban all admins/mods of TON from OU forum (and saying that they were "politely asked to leave") for actions said persons did in another forum and even there the discussions aren't visible for normal members. So while I for one very much would like to see OU and TON getting along... it's little difficult when the leader of the other forum (OU) so strongly wants to split the two (by banning admins/mods of TON). Of course now that Docjazz no longer runs OU, it's possible that there be peace between the two. |
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| Myung | May 7 2008, 11:28 AM Post #37 |
~MOHAWKGURLE~
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Thank you Teidon for writing exactly what I think about the situation as well. |
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| shadowyi | May 7 2008, 01:06 PM Post #38 |
[music of paradox]
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And my thanks to kissing and teidon for writing what I wanted to express as well. I'm only a newcomer and don't know much about past history, but I feel I know enough to draw my own conclusions. And really, none of us can change the past. We can only decide what conclusions we'd like to draw from current evidence and how to move on from there. I've decided to keep what I feel in the back of my mind and move on towards creating music, as have many others of TON have decided to do.
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| Aryah | May 7 2008, 07:12 PM Post #39 |
bard ♫♪
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I like that this forum doesn't continuously lock threads, or hide them, sweeping them under the rug so to speak. Freedom of speech!
:P
I like Moonsyne's idea of just letting it die down on it's own, because I know it will. Now say if a year later someone tries to resurrect the thread, then I'd think it might be time to lock it... Though I agree that the information provided could have been falsified to sway any that would pick sides to choose TON, and I have extensive experience with drama queens and kings that I can easily identify them (unfortunately my entire in-laws are... *sigh*) and am/was wary that this was the case, I am grown up enough to formulate my own opinions and thoughts on a matter, instead of taking what someone else says to be the absolute truth. I've always tried to keep an objective view in matters such as these, though I guess looking back they might have looked like I was a "fangirl", like others I'm not perfect and sometimes have difficulty expressing what I mean to say in words.. Though I also agree that posting the information was possibly questionable, I also see the Admin/Moderator's point in wanting to let their members be aware of the problem, and provide them with all the information that they did have on the matter. And I respect and appreciate that they did that. I hate being left in the dark and treated like an inferior. Docjazz posted his farewell on the OU forums, and in that post he admitted to doing some wrong things. Now whether that is the hacking, reading private information, abusing his power as an Admin to ban people without warning, who knows. But the way I see it, all of those things are wrong, and whichever he did doesn't really matter, since he did admit to doing something wrong. I have no religious beliefs, and though I admire those who are capable of forgiving, I stick to my own beliefs, which means I am in discretion of who I forgive or don't forgive. I still think Docjazz is probably a decent guy, and is an AWESOME ocarinist, that's why I'm still subscribed to his YouTube channel, but because of his actions I'll no longer wish to interact with him. As for his decision to leave OU, that is entirely his decision and I don't think it's anyone elses place to say he shouldn't have left, or ask him to come back. I believe whole-heartedly in living ones own life, the way they see fit. |
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| tuneofwind | May 7 2008, 07:19 PM Post #40 |
something else
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Uhh... myth?? LOL. Religion is not a myth its a belief and can be true. Heck..It is true, I won't go in details. |
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| Ocarinar | May 7 2008, 07:42 PM Post #41 |
Pendanters x 5
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Amen. 
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| ForestsRequiem | May 7 2008, 08:27 PM Post #42 |
Formerly Ocarinaman
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I will Amen your Amen! B) |
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| Myung | May 7 2008, 08:31 PM Post #43 |
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~MOHAWKGURLE~
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I will counter-amen your double-amen with my heathen spell XD Uhm seriously guys let's not turn this topic into a religious debate... What is truth for one is not truth for another 
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| ForestsRequiem | May 7 2008, 08:38 PM Post #44 |
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Formerly Ocarinaman
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You are right Myung! Sorry for getting off topic |
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| Moonsyne | May 7 2008, 09:20 PM Post #45 |
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Creatively Processing
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My granny once said "It's between you and God. Try to keep it that way." |
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| stevtomato | May 7 2008, 11:54 PM Post #46 |
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The Terrific Tomato
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Ahem, don't be off topic please xD Aryah, nicely said there. That's true, thinking it again, it's his decision. No one here should judge his decision because that is a pretty big decision and surely, he had thought about it over and over. Remember that he called OU his home. Leaving OU must be a tough thing to do and I was always so sorry in my post because even though I believe he did some wrong so some of us, we are the final blow who made him leave OU. I know for sure that we are not responsible for the things he had done wrong to some members, but I still feel this sadness. I don't know why, but I could always feel what others are feeling. I admire his decision. If I were in his position, I am quite sure I would want to hold both God and Ocarina, in my case music (my passion is for music). Out of respect for that decision, I am also still subscribed to him. Like one said, he is also a human. But he was also a leader, a really sensitive position where every single little thing you do matters. Every single little wrong thing you do is bound to be criticised. I think the damage he did to all of us is nothing compared the damage that we and he did to him and himself. I really think we should not hold any grudge to him anymore, he has had enough burden to carry. |
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| Moonsyne | May 8 2008, 12:32 AM Post #47 |
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Creatively Processing
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I hold nothing against him and wish him well. It came down to me and the way I was made to feel about it until I decided that I could not longer support the decisions that were being made on OU. |
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| Pyromanaic21 | May 8 2008, 01:35 AM Post #48 |
the pyro/urban ninja
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it is sad that he is leaving.....but it will resolve a lot of tension and I believe that that was what he was going for. ....... :ph43r: |
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| leArAnonA | May 9 2008, 05:09 AM Post #49 |
Ocarinist
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Man I am really out of the loop! |
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| grimplexidon | May 15 2008, 10:02 PM Post #50 |
The ocarina hunter
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wow u guys make it seem like OU has a big history full of backstabbing and stuff can someone tell me the history of it. and they are acting like ouu is restarting or something over there |
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| DeepRed | May 15 2008, 10:06 PM Post #51 |
Official TON Signature Maker!
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I dont think it would be appropriate, or productive in any way to bring all that up again. OU isn't 'restarting' it's still going, though a good bit quieter...*sigh* :unsure: |
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| speckles | May 16 2008, 02:33 AM Post #52 |
I’ve been hypnotized
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Even though he said he will no longer be posting, he is still listed as an admin in the members list. :unsure: |
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| shadowyi | May 16 2008, 02:02 PM Post #53 |
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[music of paradox]
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Eh, you can pretty much read up on recent events in our security thread, anything further back then that turns into personal issues. I'm pretty sure those involved would prefer to keep their privacy and let this die down, so let's leave them be.
[edit] And yeah, I saw the thread on a new layout and all. But nothing will take the place of TON in my heart. 
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| Rhiley57 | Sep 9 2008, 01:24 AM Post #54 |
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Pendanters
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Hey guys im a newbie bassicaly,, and the main reason i started playing was also DocJazz AND!!! Kissing88 .. so now kissing88 is a bit of a Ocarina Leader too,, hehe!! anyways i may know the reason why he tripped.. Mainly its life,, with life comes stresses and with Religion comes even MORE Stresses.. maybe his priest said not to do what he does or even his Guardians!! but i know that alot of REALLY REALLY RELIGIOOUS People Turn to ALCHOHOL!! I think he just drank a little too much and since he had alot of power he abused it while being drunk,, maybe friends or a little birthday party,, he does go to college so maybe a frat party!! lol... this is just my hypothesis as a Alchoholic Catholic!... lol |
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| Moonsyne | Sep 9 2008, 06:05 AM Post #55 |
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Creatively Processing
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While I like your enthusiasm, the last post made here was May 16, so it's reviving a dead topic. Locked. |
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