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| Mandatory music education? | |
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| Topic Started: May 4 2008, 02:51 PM (732 Views) | |
| shadowyi | May 6 2008, 09:11 PM Post #31 |
[music of paradox]
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Moonsyne: Ewwww I feel for you.
:unsure: Mavari: Gotcha -- interesting thing about your friend. Why can't this world just all get along, and everyone be intelligent, compassionate, reflective, and well mannered? Oh wait, then I'd be dreaming.. 
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| Turbo852 | May 6 2008, 09:26 PM Post #32 |
 
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Ha ha, my high school school was going to have a unit on square dancing in gym class, but we ran out of time and it was canceled. I wish we would have gotten to do more on gymnastics though because that was always fun. I think kids should be introduced to music at a young age, but not required to take it in high school. By that time, students will probably know their interests at least somewhat. I think that people should be free to take classes that they want to take in high school along with the required ones of course. Making music education mandatory in high school would probably just make people hate it, and I don't want that. Physical education was only mandatory up until 10th grade. Many people stopped taking it and were really happy that it was over with. I actually liked it, but didn't continue taking it because I was already involved in sports (Cross Country, Track). This gave me the opportunity to take other classes that interested me, such as HTML, and Music Theory. I was already in Band so that didn't interfere anyways. I remember we had music classes in elementary school and then the option of joining choir and band, of which I did both. But I only continued Band after elementary school. I wasn't really good at singing anyway. I'm really glad that we had music classes and I always thought they were fun. We never played recorders in them though. We got to play drums and glockenspiels. But I was only in elementary school for three years (4th, 5th, and 6th grades). I was home schooled for my earlier years because my mom is an elementary school teacher and she wanted to teach me. Note: We got together with other kids being home schooled to have art and gym classes, and my mom ran a daycare at our house, so it wasn't like we were isolated from the rest of society. |
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| tuneofwind | May 7 2008, 02:07 AM Post #33 |
something else
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Here how mine started. Kindergarten-We learn VERY basic things for example the order of the Do Re Mi scale and how it increases in tone. 1st Grade-Same thing 2nd Grade- Same thing 3rd Grade- Music pitch and what not. 4th Grade- Recorders, how to play them and use them 5th Grade- Notes 6th Grade- Recorders more 7th Grade- Nothing at all lol 8th Grade- Composing our own songs (Simple Song) 9th Grade-Introduction Music, I THOUGHT i was going to learn music theory but i was wrong. Instead we learn the HISTORY of music. Like how classical period started, who was involved, people, history of rock, baroque, punk, metal and other music genres started. |
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| Moonsyne | May 7 2008, 02:41 AM Post #34 |
Creatively Processing
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I don't recall, at any time period, an offer to teach how to read sheet music. We had Do Re Mi manditory (with recorders) in 6th grade, then music was optional in 7th with a requirement that you already know how to read sheets. |
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| Turbo852 | May 7 2008, 02:59 AM Post #35 |
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I think I only learned sheet music when started Band in 6th grade. Although I sort of knew a little already, at least the note lengths because my mom had tried to teach me piano when I was really little. She got too busy to continue with it though, and I was too young to do it on my own. I know that we never went over sheet music in the regular Music class. |
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| DeepRed | May 7 2008, 06:42 AM Post #36 |
Official TON Signature Maker!
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Wow!! In the UK music teachers are everywhere, and don't cost a lot! It took me 20 minutes online to find myself a new clarinet/sax tutor, who only lives half a mile away. As for the cost of lessons, a 1-2 hour lesson, depending on the teacher, costs betweeen £10-£15 ($20-$30US) on averge, Not very expensive at all! After reading these posts,I guess I can now say I'm really lucky to be born in Northern Ireland, since we have the highest education standards in the UK (and also Europe)- free Grammar education (english students have to pay) to those who pass the entry exam, the government pays you to stay in school until you're eighteen,compulsory art education, music eduction, and mulitple languages. Free healthcare, high minimum wages... Wow. *counts blessings* |
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| flip | May 7 2008, 06:39 PM Post #37 |
"the switch"
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Oh, I don't know. Now if it became a requirement for graduation to be able to play Canon Rock flawlessly...then I think people might start to hate it. But if the kids actually got some decent clay ocs, then I don't think there would be that much. I hated the recorder cuz it sounded horrible. We kids weren't taken seriously. They figured they could just give us junk. Kids and ocarinas need to be taken seriously as it pertains to music education. |
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| shadowyi | May 9 2008, 01:24 AM Post #38 |
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[music of paradox]
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Lol Canon Rock eh, some people who've been playing for quite a while would find canon rock hard to master. I guess we should wish for every kid getting the same quality and level of education. Music literacy seems to come with that. On a side note, I'm so happy that my topic has provoked such response! 
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| faben13 | May 9 2008, 01:28 AM Post #39 |
Old Oc
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i dont know i had music education for almost all 13 years i went to school (1, later 2 hours a week) and i really didnt really learn much at all. we had mostly musichistory and some musictheory along with playing a few simple instruments like bass or bells in some really, really simple songs (stuff you could learn in 5 minutes with no music experience whatsoever) the musichistory was fun for me as long as the current topic was a musicstyle i didnt despise  but most people in my class just hated it. i dont think that brought any benefit for us except for some additional general knowledge ..whatever thats good for.. also i didnt see anyone get to like a music style they didnt like before from that. the musictheory was .. weird.. i leard all kinds of things there, how to read sheet music, how to build scales and chords, even stuff about modes and transcribing. it could have been useful... if i would have played an instrument by then. so i sat there with all that knowledge and i couldnd make anything of it. what good are chords when you cant even hear a difference between a chord and a single note? now that i play an instrument i had to learn everything from scratch, even reading music, because just knowing where the middle c is and counting to all the other notes got me through every test but not really far as i actually tried to play it. the ear training part was especially useless since we didnt train for long and then had a test about it which was pure guessing for me. i thought i was tone deaf or something because some of my friends, which had played an instrument, could get everything right with ease. the whole thing was kinda mandatory, if you would have gotten a 6 (a F in american system i suppose) you wouldve had to repeat that year, but i never heard of someone who actually managed to do that. so id say mandatory music education (well at least the way i had it) is complety pointless, it rather made me not want to play an instrument. however i have to say i joined a percussion group in my school which had nothing to do with grades and that was really fun. we didnt learn any theory at all we just played some songs we composed with the teacher on congas and bells such. i learnd quite a lot there about song structure and rythm. if music education could be like that it would be awesome. just that everyone can experience how it feels to play real music with others, not some folksongs noone likes, i believe that could make more people want to play music. wow that turned out long oO. i cant remember posting anything that long anywhere xD |
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| Mikael | May 9 2008, 10:57 AM Post #40 |
Does not approve of christmas
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In my opinion music should be a much bigger part of mandatory education. I don't know what it's like in other places but here in Norway I feel that it's not taken seriously enough. I would love to have learned alot more about music when I was younger, but the schools just don't have the resources to give a proper education in music. Now if they just had more (and better) teachers as well as a broader selection of instruments, then they might be able to give more students the education they need. I believe that every single person on this planet have a burning passion for an instrument. They just might not have found it yet. |
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| ImmortalOffspring | May 9 2008, 11:56 AM Post #41 |
One with the floor
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Aye. Hey, you should join the band. We've got great teachers. But I agree that our schools need more cash for education in musical instruments. They need more cash as a whole. The paradox here is that our jails probably have better education to offer than our schools. They also have TV, free workout in gyms and a load of other privileges. Lousy, stupid government. |
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| DeepRed | May 10 2008, 02:31 PM Post #42 |
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Official TON Signature Maker!
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Hehe that was me! I didn't actually like my music classes and didn't do very well- until I found the clarinet and ocarina and learned them for my own pleasure, not for grades! Without that pressure it was actually enjoyable! |
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| Pyromanaic21 | May 18 2008, 12:27 AM Post #43 |
the pyro/urban ninja
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that is so true...Instruments are really great because you can use them to express your self in a way that isn't possible with other arts. you can be truly unique and at the same time soothe your soul... ....... :ph43r: |
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| grimplexidon | Jul 7 2008, 11:02 PM Post #44 |
The ocarina hunter
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well in my elemantery school we were required to take a music class but it was more like music appreciation. we were going to learnn recorders but our teacher gave up lol |
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| Elfgrin | Jul 25 2008, 04:06 AM Post #45 |
DDR god
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Some people simply aren't musical, and don't enjoy music. I think we have to respect that, and leave those people be. |
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| shadowyi | Jul 25 2008, 01:37 PM Post #46 |
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[music of paradox]
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Heh, wow this topic is old. I made this when I first got introduced to TON!
Well, I still think that some effort has to be made first to educate these folks on basic knowledge and theory. If we don't I feel that it's a similar analogy to not teaching those not good at math anything about it. We have to teach people how to add and subtract even if math is the bane of their existence. |
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| Elfgrin | Jul 28 2008, 06:18 AM Post #47 |
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DDR god
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That seems like a little bit of comparing apples to oranges, imo. While we do teach math, it's a life skill that our society has made impossible to live without. Well, my society, I guess we all live from different parts of the world here at TON. But music is something you can live without completely. I'm not saying I could live without it, but there are people out there who simply don't want it and don't need it. I guess I just don't like mandatory things in general, because I feel I'm intelligent enough to make decisions with my best interests in mind. Still being in Junior High, I get told what to do a lot, by people I'm fairly certain don't know me very well, and aren't as intelligent as me (i know it sounds cocky, and I don't mean to say they're unintelligent, but some people know better than others, and that's just how life is). I've been forced to do things, things I didn't want to do, and I've been glad about it. But that's from people who know me, and people who I know are smart, and want what's best for me. I don't think having widespread rules for mandatory musical education is fair to those who don't want/need it. A good example is me going into High School. In my Junior High (gr. 7-9 here) there's a 1 year musical education minimum. I was fine with that, because it's one year of the least important schooling years of my life, and I love music. I proceeded to enlist for musical education for the whole 3 years of me being there. But I think it's unlikely I will continue to get musical education in High School. I'd like to, and I know it'd be good, but I need to have time to do really well in the essential subjects, as I aim to get as many scholarships as I can. If musical education was forced on me, I wouldn't have as much time to do what's really important, and could potentially do worse in school. So i guess it's not really a yes or no question, because it can be done well, and it can be done poorly. I really do enjoy conversations like this, as I can rarely spark an intellectual debate like this with the people I know locally. Edited by Elfgrin, Jul 28 2008, 02:08 PM.
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| shadowyi | Jul 28 2008, 04:38 PM Post #48 |
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[music of paradox]
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True, music knowledge isn't necessary to survival, but neither is history, science or a foreign language. We can get along perfectly without knowing how to balance a chemistry equation. I guess this might take me into the area of asking what makes the other subjects more vital and therefore important for teaching over music? I feel that it's a general lack of musical knowledge that impedes people's progress in learning music when they are interested, or might deter someone altogether. What if... you wanted to learn the guitar, but didn't know how to read sheet music or chords? Wouldn't it be extremely intimidating to have to learn all this at the same time? Some people might just give it up as a lost cause and not even bother, and they'll have closed the door on a chapter of their life before they even opened it fully. Heh, I enjoy this conversations too.
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| Elfgrin | Jul 28 2008, 05:40 PM Post #49 |
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DDR god
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I guess mandatory music education could be negative or positive, depending on how it's handled. I think it'd be perfectly acceptable in elementary/junior high, but after that I think people are mature enough to decide for themselves. Though other people might have varying views on how important the first 9/8 years of school are. I might not care about getting that extra 5% out of studying in juniour high, but other people might need that time if schools are more competitive where they come from. |
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| Moonsyne | Jul 28 2008, 10:43 PM Post #50 |
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Creatively Processing
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School was not something that I would have ever applied the term 'competitive' to. I see musical education as an escape from ignorance and a better understanding of how people see the intangible. Musical notation, like math, are creations of humankind as they try to evaluate ideas. The better grasp of such concepts makes for a better ability to apply information to any situation at hand. Is it essential? No. Does it make us better at what is essential? Most definately! |
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| Elfgrin | Jul 29 2008, 12:33 AM Post #51 |
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DDR god
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Well school can get very competitive in some places. For instance, 95% of the people I'm going to school with will choose school A as their next school, but the top 5% have the grades to make it into school B. Thus there is competition to get the highest marks, and thus the "better" school. Though I must say, I do love your definition of musical education. Edited by Elfgrin, Jul 29 2008, 12:36 AM.
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| shadowyi | Jul 30 2008, 04:06 PM Post #52 |
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[music of paradox]
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Oh definitely! Well put Moonsyne, well put. |
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| Wintergreen | Aug 28 2008, 09:00 PM Post #53 |
Bipolar Boy
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Some musical education should be mandetory. Biology is mandetory as is history but neither of them are part of most people's careers. It makes them well rounded. The only problem now is funding good classes... Arts classes aren't equal in the U.S. My current shool has a good art program but my last three were afwul. I was in music for all of junior high and they didn't teach me to read music or play an instrument.The only option was the recorder and that's not even an option. Those things are horrible. I did have mandetory choir. Some people, like me, can't sing. Choir shouldn't be required. |
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| bluebell | Sep 7 2008, 11:23 AM Post #54 |
Working on becoming a musician one day
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music was mandatory at my school for 2 years, and some people really ust dont like it. therefore it is wasting thier learning time and means they will play up and disrupt those who want to be there.... so i mean, let them have a choice, but dont force it on them. |
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| Midnayuki | Sep 8 2008, 11:42 PM Post #55 |
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Pendanters
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I remember learning the recorder was a requirement for passing the fourth grade, but I didn't really get into it. I also remember that in middle school, you take 6 weeks of music at a time, once a year. They always taught the same basic reading and playing skills, but then had almost a whole year to forget it, and then never went back to the subject after getting into high school. We need 2 years of arts to graduate, but that can be the two years of language (other than English) that we need to graduate, most kids don['t go on to music, at least compared to the size of the school. We have roughly 4,000+ kids at a time, and there's only about 300 in band. Even less in choir... sad. |
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| Midnayuki | Sep 8 2008, 11:46 PM Post #56 |
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Pendanters
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I agree with the choir bit (even though I am in it and LOVING it), but not so much with the "recorders are horrible" bit. If you invest in a wooden recorder, then it really is a beautiful instrument. My mom teaches 2nd-5th grade, and the recorder unit is in her third grade classes. She got a wooden one because the plasic ones suck so much, and I enjoy hearing her play it. |
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10:08 PM Jan 8
